Return to Great Lakes & Seaway Shipping Great Lakes & Seaway Shipping Online
Discussion Boards
Please click to visit our sponsor
It is currently February 19, 2018, 5:04 pm

FAQ | Instructions | Help
Search for:



Post a reply
Username:
Subject:
Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 60000 characters. 

Font size:
Font color
Options:
BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF
Disable BBCode
Do not automatically parse URLs
Question
What is the word just after the "&" in the header of this Discussion Board?:
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
   
Upload attachment
If you wish to attach one or more files enter the details below.
Filename
File comment
 
   

Topic review - American Mariner paint job
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
In response to another person's comments on another thread as far as ship's paint jobs, another one that comes to mind at least is the CSL Tadoussac. It was said and mentioned by another poster in a different thread, that when she was in gray and hauling cement cargoes and ore cargoes that in between the loads she would get sort of red and purple like stains on her hull from hauling ore loads and he was right as I remember fondly back then. When the Tad was in gray she looked ugly and horrible with those ore stains on her haul. The best thing they ever did with her was by painting her in the red hull color and then afterward she no longer was carrying those cement cargoes up to the Essroc Dock in Essexville. So you could say that before the Frontenac was painted from black to red and the Tad from gray to red, that both of these two classics at one time anyway IMO were very close to meeting their fates early rather than later! Thank goodness both were painted red and are still with us for now at least. Give CSL credit for repainting them in red as these two classics are two of the nicest and best looking ships at least IMO sailing the Great Lakes and Seaway these days!
Post Posted: February 19, 2018, 10:52 am
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
To reply to Guest’s post, Yes I agree as the Frontenac indeed looks much better now in red than she did in black. Have to remember as well that when she was black she also carried cement cargoes to the Essroc Dock in Essexville. Once she was painted red, I believe she stopped hauling clinkers to Essexville. Surely that’s made a difference along with being painted red. I also say the Pineglen looked much better in red along with the Cedarglen. Granted, I saw the Cedarglen twice last year and she is looking not too great now days but at least she looked good in red as did the Birchglen and Spruceglen. I recall these two when they were black, gosh did they looked bad back then. Two others that come to mind is the Atlantic Erie and Superior. Once these two were painted in red, they looked much better than that ugly black they once had then.
Post Posted: February 18, 2018, 3:16 pm
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
Shirtofgreen wrote:
GuestfromEU wrote:
Shirtofgreen wrote:
Theres a huge difference between salties and the Lakers, completely incomparable when it comes to necessity to paint. .


Very much true. Also remember, the ocean ships typically have longer transit times at sea, and quite possibly additional crewmembers compared to USA/Canadian ships. They also berth quayside less frequently than Lakers, and rarely shift while moored, reducing hull scraping.



They also don't stick around for 40 years


What about the ex Saskatchewan Pioneer as she spent some time as a saltie and it was 1983 when she was launched ? The exception !!
Post Posted: February 18, 2018, 2:33 pm
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
This post got me thinking remember how awful the frontenac looked at the end of her tenure in black and ever sense she went red she's one of the better painted and looked after laker when she was black she looked ready for the breakers.
Post Posted: February 18, 2018, 1:10 pm
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
GuestfromEU wrote:
Shirtofgreen wrote:
Theres a huge difference between salties and the Lakers, completely incomparable when it comes to necessity to paint. .


Very much true. Also remember, the ocean ships typically have longer transit times at sea, and quite possibly additional crewmembers compared to USA/Canadian ships. They also berth quayside less frequently than Lakers, and rarely shift while moored, reducing hull scraping.



They also don't stick around for 40 years
Post Posted: February 18, 2018, 10:21 am
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
Yeah I realize and understand that as I mentioned in my post that all I was doing was just in a good way trying to point out that some of the salties looked good last year as far as paint schemes on the hulls and that it's surprising to see that as sometimes salties look really beat up and nasty sailing on saltwater of course. Again I was just trying to add comments in a good and positive way and not in any negative terms or way was all.
Post Posted: February 17, 2018, 9:46 pm
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
Shirtofgreen wrote:
Theres a huge difference between salties and the Lakers, completely incomparable when it comes to necessity to paint. .


Very much true. Also remember, the ocean ships typically have longer transit times at sea, and quite possibly additional crewmembers compared to USA/Canadian ships. They also berth quayside less frequently than Lakers, and rarely shift while moored, reducing hull scraping.
Post Posted: February 17, 2018, 9:46 pm
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
Denny wrote:
Sorry to go off topic here on the American Mariner’s paint job but I’m sure that some would agree with me, last season in 2017 I saw a few saltwater ships many of them were Fednav Salties. Surprised to see at least that some of the Salties even Fednavs looked better than some of our lakers but they are not carrying lots of salt and constantly running up and down the Seaway and going through the locks at the Welland and Seaway as often as the lakers do. Still it is surprising that some of the Salties though look better in spite sailing on saltwater than some of the lake ships. Just my thoughts only in a nice and polite way is all here.


Theres a huge difference between salties and the Lakers, completely incomparable when it comes to necessity to paint. .
Post Posted: February 17, 2018, 8:46 pm
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
Sorry to go off topic here on the American Mariner’s paint job but I’m sure that some would agree with me, last season in 2017 I saw a few saltwater ships many of them were Fednav Salties. Surprised to see at least that some of the Salties even Fednavs looked better than some of our lakers but they are not carrying lots of salt and constantly running up and down the Seaway and going through the locks at the Welland and Seaway as often as the lakers do. Still it is surprising that some of the Salties though look better in spite sailing on saltwater than some of the lake ships. Just my thoughts only in a nice and polite way is all here.
Post Posted: February 17, 2018, 7:18 pm
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
And that's a reason so many industrial areas are so heavily polluted now..
Post Posted: February 16, 2018, 9:30 pm
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
But guest from EU yrs ago it was as easy as that the 5gallon pails would arrive in late spring and you knew in the deck dept that you had probably depending on the run a month or so to have her all painted, over the side when you were tied up and deck and deck houses on the run. If you weren't running lines or cleaning cargo holds you were chipping and painting.
Post Posted: February 16, 2018, 1:00 pm
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
Another item to consider is the application of modern coatings (paint). Marine coatings is very much a technical business, though the AB swinging a brush likely doesn't give much thought to it. My company utilizes a software program, tailored to each ship, for on-board maintenance painting. This is the routine painting done during the year. It describes application thicknesses, mixing ratios (two part epoxies), which primer to use under which top coat (interior and exterior coatings are different).

Hull side and underwater coatings are done in dry dock, as proper application procedures must be adhered to (I have seen coatings peel off in sheets due to improper spraying). The hull is spot blasted, blended, spot primed, and coated. Coatings are typically a three part process. Sometimes the entire hull is blasted, depending on the type of coatings used (anti-fouling, etc.) Putting a man over the side and rolling on the paint guarantees nothing in proper adhesion, film thickness, nor life cycle expectancy. If a drop of paint does fall into the water, in some jurisdictions, can result in a not-so-pleasant visit from Port State/local authorities. We joke about it, but it is true. Besides, as shippers, we are equally respectful of the environment, and furthermore, the safety of a crew member. Work over open water requires authorization from the very top of the company, something not taken lightly.

The gist of it is such that it is not as simple as going to Sherwin Williams and buying a can of paint. For more info, Google companies like Jotun, International Coatings, Sigma Marine Coatings, Hempel...the list goes on. I just authorized an order for paint for a ship - a few 20 liter cans of top coat, hardener, and some five liter cans for the engine room. The cost was over $1500, plus that much additional in freight charges due to HazMat.

That said, a ship fresh out of the yard, all cleaned up, it is a rewarding sight.
Post Posted: February 16, 2018, 6:56 am
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
Well said by "Guest". Between EPA regulations on painting (i.e. not allowed to paint while ship in service and more expensive for drydock painting due to equipment/setup/labor) combined with crew reductions, paint maintenance has reduced substantially. I only consider painting at drydock/survey work events now.
Post Posted: February 14, 2018, 2:03 pm
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
Please allow me to add my two cents worth here. I sailed in the seventies on many vessels for ASC , CLIFFS, STEINBRENNER, but mostly the old Huron boats when national gypsum still owned the cement plant. In ALL the fleets we did painting at fit out and during the season. There was very little EPA oversight then or restrictions. I spent many hours at the Huron docks painting hull sides while hooked up to the silos pumping off our cement load. Spent many hours on all the ships I was on chipping and painting decks and hatches out at sea between ports. Any sailors on this website during the “ old days “ know what I am explaining here.
present days? None of that is allowed due to EPA restrictions about painting. It is only allowed in restricted settings such as dry dock or fit out with extensive recovery apparatus in place. The days of cheap and constant labor to paint onboard at sea or at a dock are long gone! I imagine some of it is done on the sly in some situations but if caught, th fines are enormous.
The “ old days”are long gone and are not returning to Great Lakes shipping. I , like John Paul, was making a career and was headed to mates school when the big collapse came in 1980. I had to make a new career choice and ended up hauling steel and machinery as an owner operator for the past 37 years. I have maintained a close relationship to shipping as I have been in and out of all the past and current steel mills over that time period. If you were to see the condition of the remaining mills today, as I do, you would be very worried about your ship watching hobby. Mills are bleeding cash profusely and are at 70% of capacity. USS is now paying steel hauling companies on 60- 90 days when for years they paid 10-30 days like clockwork. Many steel haulers no longer haul for them.The old integrated mills are on borrowed time as the mini mills are so more efficient and profitable and have less environmental pressure from regulators. They will be gone in the not too distant future and with them will go most of the Great Lakes shipping industry as we know it now. Sooo, what I am conveying is,,, just enjoy what you have now to follow as the future is not Rosy and your worried opinion will have no effect on the bottom line of shipping companies.
Post Posted: February 14, 2018, 1:08 am
  Post subject:  Re: American Mariner paint job  Reply with quote
A boat can be repainted in an environmentally responsible manner. Happens every year on the lakes, multiple times. You're not running an environmentally irresponsible company by keeping up the appearance of your fleet to a certain degree.

And if you're worried about paint flaking off into the water ("What paint goes on comes off over the years"), all the more reason to tackle it in a responsible manner during a mandatory drydocking before the paint job has completely failed.

I doubt boatnerd pressure has led one fleet to do anything they otherwise wouldn't of done. Those that keep up the appearance of their vessels have other reasons that justify that investment, just as those that cut corners have their reasons for neglecting the condition of the appearance of their vessels. The opinion of fans of Great Lakes shipping isn't influencing their decision making one way or another.

And 100-200 gallons of paint is very much an underestimation to repaint even a smaller freighter. I know of a recent paint job on a bay window caboose that took just over 10 gallons of primer and 5 gallons of color paint for instance. And Norfolk Southern uses 60 gallons of primer and paint for the average mainline locomotive when repainted.

A Great Lakes freighter, especially a footer, must be well past a thousand gallons for a full paint job from bare metal. 100-200 gallons might do a patch job on the superstructure by the deckhands if that ever happens these days, but not much more than that.
Post Posted: February 13, 2018, 10:52 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours



Return to Great Lakes & Seaway Shipping  
Copyright Boatnerd.com All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Use of this site is based on the Terms of Use
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group