Historical Perspective in Photos

Discussion board focusing on Great Lakes Shipping Question & Answer. From beginner to expert all posts are welcome.
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

It was fairly calm when I took this photo upbound at Fort Gratiot Lighthouse and CG Station showing Storm Warnings flying @ 1000hr on January 10, 1978. We were bound for Marquette with N Storm Warnings and encountered steady 60+ mph winds with the hightest gusts over 70 @1300hr when we were off Oscoda, MI. Waves were averaging 18-22ft with the occasional 25 footer and had to check down to 60prm because we were pitching so heavily.
Attachments
storm.jpg
With all the talk of this being Algoway's last season, here she is on the Calumet River
With all the talk of this being Algoway's last season, here she is on the Calumet River
A beautiful day on the St Clair River
A beautiful day on the St Clair River
rep2.jpg
Under the Hullets at night - Republic Steel - S Chicago
Under the Hullets at night - Republic Steel - S Chicago
The Ocean Sovereign hit the West Pier at the Soo on Nov 15, 1976 and was taking on water and had a obvious port list.
The Ocean Sovereign hit the West Pier at the Soo on Nov 15, 1976 and was taking on water and had a obvious port list.
Montcliffe Hall unloading in Conneaut
Montcliffe Hall unloading in Conneaut
Canadian Leader approaching the Soo Locks
Canadian Leader approaching the Soo Locks
The Glossbrenner's stern can be seen on the far left of the photo
The Glossbrenner's stern can be seen on the far left of the photo
Unloading in Ashtabula
Unloading in Ashtabula
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Guest wrote:How would they know if you missed the boat if your watch wasn't for a bit did you sign on and off?
We didn't need to sign out but the mate on my watch knew I hadn't got back because I always let him know first thing back on board.
Besides, we all pretty much looked out for each other.
I'm sure other guys who sailed will agree...there were other guys on board who I didn't particularly like but if we were up town and they got in a bind, we always had the back of a shipmate.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

How would they know if you missed the boat if your watch wasn't for a bit did you sign on and off?
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

I could still kick myself for not grabbing the one onboard the White. We had just weathered a heavy storm with lots of pitching that caused the framed copy we had in the guest observation lounge to pull loose and crashed to the deck. While cleaning up the mess I seriously debated whether to stash it away and sneak it off during layup but my good upbringing got the better of me, lol.
I know of no other copies but John Belliveau who does the amazing Digital ship drawings listed on boatnerd would be a good start.
Yes, the coal from Conneaut went to Port Washington. We usually went there 4-5 times a year. I loved it there!! It's a beautiful and friendly little town and took 36 - 40+ hours to unload.
As for being in trouble for missing the boat, I had asked the Old Man's permission each time and was back an hour before the designated time.
Others occasionally missed the boat but that usually involved drinking and that was a one and done.
garbear

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by garbear »

Did the coal you loaded in Conneaut go to Port Washington? Thanks.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

Guest wrote:Did the mate give you a hard time about missing the boat?
I'd be surprised if it occurs much, if at all, these days. But no matter when, that person who ranks above the mate better like you A LOT. And you best not make a habit out of it.........

BTDT
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

Jon Paul, do you by chance know of anyone who saved or kept any kind of blueprint for the triplets? Several people including myself have been trying to locate some for many years to no real success. Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks for sharing!
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

Did the mate give you a hard time about missing the boat?
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

garbear wrote:Thanks for the photos of the Clarke and Watson. Really like that Watson photo. Also, thanks for posting a photo of unloading at McLouth Steel. Don't see a lot of photos of boats unloading there.
We went there a lot. They had Wellman unloading rigs that were broke down probably 30-40% of the time. Our unloading times could be 15 hours (when both were working full time) and 25 -35 hours when not.
My family lived near Flint which was an hours drive away. My father, who had to have been an original boatnerd, loved to come down and visit. He would go to the galley, get a cup of "boat coffee" and roam the boat. Of course everyone knew he was my pop so they treated him 1st class.
Sometimes if it was gonna be a long delay, he would take me home and I could see mom and then a little special time with my fiance.
Of course this was pre cell phone Era and a couple times they finished unloading quicker than anticipated. I got to the dock and the White was already mid-stream and going though the Upper Grosse Isle Bridge.
We would drive like madmen to get to Wescott's and they would radio the boat and tell them I would get back on when they delivered the mail.
I will tell you from experience...that is a long scary climb up a regular ladder slung over the side, in the dark and both boats moving.
garbear

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by garbear »

Thanks for the photos of the Clarke and Watson. Really like that Watson photo. Also, thanks for posting a photo of unloading at McLouth Steel. Don't see a lot of photos of boats unloading there.
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Paul A wrote:Always love seeing pix of Hullets. Thanks Jon Paul.
I've always been fascinated by them. As a wheelsman or watchman when your docked unloading, you spend your watch manning the mooring winchs on the spare deck. That gave me lots of time to observe and photograph them when possible.
I will have plenty more for you to see Paul
captain
Posts: 22
Joined: August 13, 2010, 1:16 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by captain »

Thank you much for the picture of the Willowdale, much appreciated.
Paul A
Posts: 428
Joined: June 28, 2010, 12:30 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Paul A »

Always love seeing pix of Hullets. Thanks Jon Paul.
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Here is a little variety for a Saturday night.
I included the Sparkman D Foster because William Lafferty mentioned in the E M Young thread that that is what the Young eventually became.
I also included the Willowdale for Captain who noted that Imperial Midland was converted to it in his post.
...and last but not least I included garbear's old homes..the Clarke and the Watson
Attachments
Docked and preparing to unload at McLouth Steel - Trenton MI
Docked and preparing to unload at McLouth Steel - Trenton MI
Pinedale loading in Conneaut...we were docked and unloading pellets then would shift to the coal loader when the Pinedale finished
Pinedale loading in Conneaut...we were docked and unloading pellets then would shift to the coal loader when the Pinedale finished
1st Mate Ric Starcke and GLMA cadet Paul Brown get the mail in Dteroit
1st Mate Ric Starcke and GLMA cadet Paul Brown get the mail in Dteroit
willowdale.jpg
foster.jpg
C M White is on the left, sister ship and fleetmate Tom Girdler is on the right and loading in Escanaba
C M White is on the left, sister ship and fleetmate Tom Girdler is on the right and loading in Escanaba
C M White unloading at Cleveland Lakefront July '76
C M White unloading at Cleveland Lakefront July '76
watson.jpg
clarke.jpg
Old Man

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Old Man »

I was happy to see the Marquette. My folks were keeping ship on her when I was born. Dad was a captain for Cliffs so he was assured of winter work when the fleet was in layup. Cliffs used to layup several boats in Milwaukee during the winter but didn't last long into the forties
William Lafferty
Posts: 1491
Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by William Lafferty »

Was the White built for the Bradley fleet?
Yes, launched 24 July 1915 at Lorain for the Limestone Transportation Company of Cleveland, founded 11 March 1915 to provide a ten-year charter to the Michigan Limestone & Chemical Company, Rogers City. It was named for the president of Michigan Limestone and christened by Margaret McManigal of New York City. The White was by far the largest and most advanced self-unloader on the lakes when placed in service, able to unload 11,000 tons of stone in four hours.
Alex

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Alex »

Was the White built for the Bradley fleet?
Bookworm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Bookworm »

William Lafferty wrote:
it was interesting to see several vessels in your grouping with centered pilot houses and made me curious. Was there a benefit to positioning them there, or was it a short-lived trend in Great Lakes shipping?
I assume you mean pilothouses centered close to amidships. Each of the vessels shown with this configuration were originally intended for saltwater service. The Saginaw was a war emergency "laker" built for the United States Shipping Board as Coperas at Manitowoc in 1919, completed after the war, obviously. The Imperial Midland was originally in the South American oil trade as the Talalarite for a subsidiary of Imperial Oil, named for the city in Peru, Talara. The Captain C. D. Secord had been built as a typical ore carrier of the day as the Charles R. Van Hise in 1900 for the Bessemmer Steamship Company at Superior. It was requisitioned by the government to be sent to saltwater during World War I. It underwent extensive modification at Buffalo prior to being cut in two and brought (on its side because its beam was too wide) through the canals but with the cessation of hostilities it never made the complete trip. It was put back together but retained the basic design that had been followed during its rebuilding, with the pilothouse where you see it. Ocean vessels typically had superstructure set back from the bow to protect it from oncoming seas.
Thank you for your very informative response, Mr. Lafferty.
garbear

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by garbear »

Jon Paul wrote:
garbear wrote:
Guest wrote:The Hoyt picture is particularly interesting to me. She appears to be drafting "0" at the bow !
Think from the days when I sailed, if my memory is correct, that would be called her forefoot showing.
When there was still 2 way traffic under the Blue Water Bridge upbound boats used to pump to A + ballast weather permitting which was basically the forepeak and the next set of tanks empty. Boats with bow thrusters you could see right through the tube, lol.
After the Smith sinking and one way traffic was implemented, upbound boats would sometimes need to "tread water" below Port Huron Traffic Buoy and this required ballasting so that the bow thruster could assist in keeping the bow from falling off in the current.

..and yes garbear, I have some special Clarke and Watson shots just for you brother
You're the best, Jon Paul!!
William Lafferty
Posts: 1491
Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by William Lafferty »

Was the Saginaw with "Buick's the Beauty on its freeboard," both: A.) a former Poker Fleet boat; and B.) probably a hauler of cars for General Motors?
It was of the same general standard design as certain of the "Poker" fleet, as I mention elsewhere here, a World War I "laker." It carried scrap steel and finished steel, but especially pig iron for GM's Saginaw Products plant at Saginaw back in the day. Saginaw Dock & Terminal was part of Oglebay Norton.
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