St. Clair - scrap tow?

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Guest

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Guest »

As of 10:33am, 1433Zulu, the Molly M1, John D and St. Clair are in the Port Colborne Anchorage, doing 1.2 knots. The Vac is outbound the Port Colborne piers, so I assume she will be assisting in the moving and docking of the St. Clair at IMS.

They paint white lines on the waterline of the bow, and it can show the tug crew if the ship is taking on water.
Denny

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Denny »

I don’t know all the basics or loop holes as far as ships being towed for scrap but, I would say and guess that No probably no one aboard the dead ship only the tugs. Now I realize that it was not going to scrap just to China to get a new forebody put on but, look in 2008 or 2009 when the Algoport broke in two in a Tropical Storm and then sank in either the Pacific or China Sea? The Algoport went down very deep to the bottom in thousands of feet of water. Where I’m going here is, had there been anyone aboard the Algoport, they’d be sitting someplace at the bottom with the ship as I don’t think they could’ve been rescued? This is just my thoughts only. Sorry if this is off topic. Hope though that this helps.
Bob

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Bob »

So when they are towing the st clair to scrap or any other ship for that matter do they have anybody on board the dead ship or just the people on board the tugs to keep an eye on the ship to see if perhaps it might be taking on water or anything else that could be happing to the ship during the tow.
Denny

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Denny »

To answer Guest’s question of What time is the tow expected to arrive at IMS? From Marine Traffic’s AIS stuff on the tow, they’re showing them due at 0700 on December 9th subject to change of course due to any weather related issues or traffic around Port Colborne along with the Welland Canal near Port Colborne and near the IMS yard I suppose?
Denny

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Denny »

Thanks Mr. Link and great explanation! You learn something new they say everyday as I learned a lot from your explanation on all of that one. Thanks again.
Mr Link
Posts: 1198
Joined: December 6, 2014, 3:43 pm

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Mr Link »

Denny wrote:Don’t forget Manistee is in Toledo yet awaiting a tow to the scrapyard and the breakers! Unless something changes, looks to be she may not be towed out until next year? How much room and space does IMS have at their Port Colborne Dock for both the St. Clair and Manistee as can both fit in there? At 770 X 92 the St. Clair will be the widest at least to be scrapped for now at least. Due to her immense size, could IMS fit both her and the Manistee together at the same dock? Wouldn’t that be a tight squeeze then or am I missing something? Thanks in advance.
Denny, Back about 2016, IMS built a second 'scrapping beach" where they can pull a hull up onto land and cut on it in the dry. Using winches, they pull hulls northward at the first beach, and southward at the second beach. In addition at the first beach they have been able to bring either large portions of a hull or perhaps an entire hull onto dry land using rolling air bags. So they could easily work on scrapping three laker-size hulls at once on dry land, plus any work they could do with a crane with a ship still floating at the dock to the north.
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Denny

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Denny »

Don’t forget Manistee is in Toledo yet awaiting a tow to the scrapyard and the breakers! Unless something changes, looks to be she may not be towed out until next year? How much room and space does IMS have at their Port Colborne Dock for both the St. Clair and Manistee as can both fit in there? At 770 X 92 the St. Clair will be the widest at least to be scrapped for now at least. Due to her immense size, could IMS fit both her and the Manistee together at the same dock? Wouldn’t that be a tight squeeze then or am I missing something? Thanks in advance.
Guest

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Guest »

What time is the tow expected to arrive at IMS?
ChannelFever

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by ChannelFever »

Perhaps GATX's next financial report will provide more information on the sale of the boat.

Who is next - the Blough?
guest

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by guest »

Molly M1 is underway for Port Colborne
Guest

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Guest »

I don't know who paid who to take on the demolition of the St. Clair, but I think the underwriters paid Marine Recycling to scrap the vessel. It's a guess, based on the fact that MRC is taking on the liability of the hazmat materials onboard the St. Clair, and the amount of abatement they will have to do before they can even commence scrapping.

If anyone is wondering what demolition prices are in the rest of the world, sorry nothing for Canada, then this website has the prices for India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Turkey. Prices are per Light Displacement Ton (LDT). https://www.go-shipping.net/demolition-market
ChannelFever

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by ChannelFever »

GATX must had depreciated the boat to a very low amount. Otherwise they wouldn't have had to pay a tax on the gain from the insrance payment, no?
Guest

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Guest »

Jared wrote:
Guest wrote:The scrap yard takes possession of the vessel once it arrives at their yard. Once she's fully dismantled at Port Colborne, her registry will be closed, though sometimes it's closed earlier - depends on the sales agreement. As of today, December 6, 2021, the eagle.org Record website shows that she's still owned by Bell Steamship.

GATX was paid an insurance settlement in late 2019 of $10.5 million ($8.1 million after tax) as an insurance settlement for the loss of the St. Clair.

As to the person(s) legally responsible, well that is up to the courts to decide in the coming years. It's a civil matter that will involve the underwriters (as they will want to recover the money they paid out to GATX). It can get costly for all involved, but we should all be thankful that no one was injured or worse.

- Brian
That's it? $10.5M seems a pittance to an asset I guesstimate to be worth in the $60M+ range.
That was likely the depreciated value of the vessel at the time of its loss. The replacement value would be surely much higher. I'm not sure how insurance on a ship works but if it has any similarity to auto insurance, I would say that the 10.5M was likely the appraised value of the ship. This would not, however, take into consideration the loss of the potential revenue this ship could have generated had it not been lost. Maybe someone with a better insight can provide a better explanation.

Another question, is the scrapyard able to negotiate a lower price due to the damage to the vessel? Since it seems to be about the only scrapyard with the capability to scrap a ship of this size (perhaps Purvis at the Soo also?) would this also have influenced the scrap value of the ship?

I would expect this episode to drag on for some time in civil court as the underwriter attempts to offset any outstanding cost not covered by the scrap sale. While not on the same scale as the St. Clair fire, I believe it took nearly twenty years to settle the litigation involving the steamer Michael K. Tewksberry when it caused a considerable amount of damage at Buffalo after breaking loose from its winter moorings in 1959.
BigRiver
Posts: 1090
Joined: April 28, 2010, 6:37 pm

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by BigRiver »

Tow is scheduled to leave Toledo at noon today
ChannelFever

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by ChannelFever »

Wonder why the scrap yard would want to take on the liability? Do we know if the scrap yard paid for the boat or was paid to take it?
Jared
Posts: 798
Joined: December 6, 2014, 4:51 pm

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Jared »

Guest wrote:The scrap yard takes possession of the vessel once it arrives at their yard. Once she's fully dismantled at Port Colborne, her registry will be closed, though sometimes it's closed earlier - depends on the sales agreement. As of today, December 6, 2021, the eagle.org Record website shows that she's still owned by Bell Steamship.

GATX was paid an insurance settlement in late 2019 of $10.5 million ($8.1 million after tax) as an insurance settlement for the loss of the St. Clair.

As to the person(s) legally responsible, well that is up to the courts to decide in the coming years. It's a civil matter that will involve the underwriters (as they will want to recover the money they paid out to GATX). It can get costly for all involved, but we should all be thankful that no one was injured or worse.

- Brian
That's it? $10.5M seems a pittance to an asset I guesstimate to be worth in the $60M+ range.
BigRiver
Posts: 1090
Joined: April 28, 2010, 6:37 pm

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by BigRiver »

Per Transport Canada, St. Clair is owned by Marine Recycling Corp.
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Guest

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Guest »

The scrap yard takes possession of the vessel once it arrives at their yard. Once she's fully dismantled at Port Colborne, her registry will be closed, though sometimes it's closed earlier - depends on the sales agreement. As of today, December 6, 2021, the eagle.org Record website shows that she's still owned by Bell Steamship.

GATX was paid an insurance settlement in late 2019 of $10.5 million ($8.1 million after tax) as an insurance settlement for the loss of the St. Clair.

As to the person(s) legally responsible, well that is up to the courts to decide in the coming years. It's a civil matter that will involve the underwriters (as they will want to recover the money they paid out to GATX). It can get costly for all involved, but we should all be thankful that no one was injured or worse.

- Brian
Guest

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by Guest »

It is now owned by the underwriters.
ChannelFever

Re: St. Clair - scrap tow?

Unread post by ChannelFever »

So who owns the boat? Did GATX sell it to American Industrial with the rest of the fleet ? I can't imagine that the Insurance Company owns her as I assume they just write a check for it's insured value and let the Owner decide whether to fix it of not. I would assume that whoever owns it gets the scrap value, if any.

Does the scrap yard take possession when the St. Clair hits Canadian soil?
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