Boatnerd Discussion Forum

I saw them today from the Canadian Coast. My best guess is they wll be at the Soo on April 1. The new Mackinaw is not designed to handle this much ice but they are doing their best.
Once the big Canadian cutter gets here, things should improove some but it will be tough until at least May. The snow and ice depth for this time of year is more then I have seen in my 65 years.

Per the MarineTraffic AIS, it appears the Katmai Bay is escorting the Mesabi Miner out of Taconite Harbor. The AIS indicates the Katmai Bay is headed to the Soo. I wonder if it will catch up with the Mackinaw convoy.

Per the Duluth Shipping News the Miner is returning to Duluth for at least a week of lay up.

[/quote]What AIS software are you using? Niether the Boatnerd AIS nor the MarineTraffic AIS software has been able to provide any information regarding the Callaway/Munson positions in ~3 days? TIA John[/quote]

I was using MarineTraffic last night. This morning the Munson is gone, but I see the Mackinaw is about 33 miles SE of where the ships were last night.

The season of 70'/71', (the ice was thick) we spent 5 days (down and up) in the ice field w. of the Mackinaw Bridge to S. Chicago and the next load to Duluth was 7 days in Whitefish Bay ice, the return was the same.
The coast guard had one additional wind class ice breaker in the lakes that year (and used that practice in the 70's and early 80's) to help break ice in March and April.
At present, the ice is 4-5' thick with windrows 8-10' where the Munson and Calloway sit, that will be a though go of it. I'll bet this is thicker that in 70'/71' break-out.
Here are a few things to consider, in 1971, the largest ship was 75' wide, (most were 60') the old Mac was 75' wide. Now the new Mac is 60' wide and 65% the weight, she is escorting the Presque Isle (105'), Munson and Calloway (72') thru the ice plate which she cut a slot of 60', that places stress and pressure on the hull in which it was not designed for, it's like pushing a softball thru a baseball hole with the aid of a hammer.
Oh yes, in our ship convoy of 1971, one ships went into the ship yard for 30 days due to hull damage from the ice plate.
Good luck to all the ships this year, they will need it.

trb wrote:As of midnight central time, the Mackinaw was within two miles of the Munson and appears to have stopped for the night. If the ships stay on the AIS, we may be able to see what type of progress they make on Sunday.

What AIS software are you using? Niether the Boatnerd AIS nor the MarineTraffic AIS software has been able to provide any information regarding the Callaway/Munson positions in ~3 days? TIA John

As of midnight central time, the Mackinaw was within two miles of the Munson and appears to have stopped for the night. If the ships stay on the AIS, we may be able to see what type of progress they make on Sunday.

Can any of the more experienced Boatwatchers / coasties comment on how this season rates historically?

Has there even been a time where boat's couldn't reach the locks?

Did the big Canadian breakers ever make it to Lake Superior in the past?

Scott wrote:The Mackinaw has to leave her convoy of loaded ships in order to break out a Canadian port?

Yep! The same as one of the Canadian ice breakers would run into Toledo, etc. to assist or run the Detroit/St. Clair River to escort American ships. Our ice breakers are mostly tasked with the St. Lawrence Seaway that will allow the salties (for example) to get up into the Lakes that will go to a U.S. Port to load cargo. It's the way the operations are set up. Mutual assistance.

It has disappeared again from the AIS, but the Mackinaw had left Thunder Bay earlier today and was headed eastish again (first NE and then west of Slate Islands it turned SE). The last time I was able to get the ship details, it showed the Munson was about 60 miles away to the SE.

The John G Munson has shown up on the AIS and appears to be approximately 16+ miles south of Slate Islands. There is an unidentified ship 30 miles NW of the Munson which I assume is the Calloway. This unidentified ship also showed up with the last Mackinaw information.

Scott,

The only boats in the "convoy" were the Presque Isle and the Callaway. The Munson had some problems getting out of Superior due to the ice, so they were supposed to catch up later.

When the PI got damaged the Mackinac left the Callaway hove to in the Ice to escort the PI back to safety.

This gave the Munson some catch up time, the Mackinac meanwhile broke out some tracks in Thunder Bay since the ice up there is pretty thick.

Tomorrow (Sunday) the Mackinac will proceed down toward the Soo with the Munson and Callaway. Who knows when they will get there. The ice is pretty thick in Whitefish Bay and the Coast Guard it seems is doing "daytime only" operations. I suspect they will lock through either Sunday night and proceed down the river at daylight Monday, or will lock through Monday and get down as far as they can Monday before stopping for the night.

The US and Canada divide regions and station assets where they can be best used. No boundary lines in this agreement. The Morrow Bay and Katmai Bay were suppose to break out Thunder Bay but the Morrow Bay is down for repairs. Expect to see one of the big Canadian breakers working all ports on Lake Superior.

The Mackinaw has to leave her convoy of loaded ships in order to break out a Canadian port?

Keep an eye out tomorrow. Once the Mackinac breaks out Thunder Bay the convoy will resume its movements across the lake.

What happened to the convoy? I kept checking the AIS to see when they would arrive at the Soo. I just checked again, and Mackinaw is breaking out Thunder bay. No sign of the two remaining ships she was escorting.

That is exactly what I have been thinking since day one when this season first got started with the Soo opening and even before then. I kept asking and thinking to myself "How is the U.S. and the Canadian Coast Guards going to handle this much ice right now on the Great Lakes/Seaway?" Also, I kept asking and also posted here in the Discussion Board about how the new Mackinaw would handle this much ice and also ice that has not been this harsh and severe in more than 20 years? I guess now we are seeing the results the hard way courtesy of the Morro Bay and the Presque Isle. Unfortunately it is only going to get worse as I hate to say it before it gets better and we are just starting out this new shipping season. Wait until next week when the Seaway opens up and more start coming in along with salties as well!

Regardless of the rudder issue on Morro Bay, and the Radisson coming into the Lakes it isn't enough. The simple fact that no boats managed to be at the Soo on opening day proves it. As of now nothing has made it to the locks. The icebreaking capacity on the lakes is not going to be able to keep up.

Denny wrote:Will they have to send in more additional icebreakers to help clear all of this ice? The Canadians have already sent the Radisson and there was talk of the Des Groseilliers headed to the upper lakes at some point. Also, at one time the Martha L. Black was heard for heading in and helping with ice. Now, it looks as though she went back East to help break ice. With the Morro Bay's rudder damaged due to the ice, will they need an additional breaker or do will they have enough with what they have right now? Sorry for so many questions on this. Any information is appreciated. Thank You.

There are no more ice breakers to send in? What you see is what you get. The Canadian fleet is extremely busy on the St. Lawrence and eastern seaboard so I doubt you'll see any more come up to the Lakes than whats already here. It's just a tough year and until things warm up, it is what it is.

Will they have to send in more additional icebreakers to help clear all of this ice? The Canadians have already sent the Radisson and there was talk of the Des Groseilliers headed to the upper lakes at some point. Also, at one time the Martha L. Black was heard for heading in and helping with ice. Now, it looks as though she went back East to help break ice. With the Morro Bay's rudder damaged due to the ice, will they need an additional breaker or do will they have enough with what they have right now? Sorry for so many questions on this. Any information is appreciated. Thank You.

I have no idea where they are at the present. Is the ice on Lake Superior bad? Oh yeah! Reports of ice 4-5 feet thick, with pressure ridges of 8-feet. Checking ice charts back to 1973, no year has such an extensive ice cover, so late in the season, as this year.

Where are they at? Any word when they will reach the Soo? Is the lake superior ice that bad?