Boatnerd Discussion Forum

The Presque Isle was used in the Winter Navigation program on the 70s and would operate through February in those winters. She would lay-up March 1st because the Poe Lock would be undergoing maintenance. At that time the MacArthur Lock would be put in operation. So, yes the Presque Isle is comparable to a self-powered laker in terms of ice capability and strength.

Is the Presque Isle, as a barge, equivalently "ice worthy" as a self-powered laker?

The American Spirit has also carried iron ore to Conneaut as well and I have seen other ASC footers carry ore to Gary along with Conneaut as well.

The American Spirit hauls cargos to US Steel in Detroit or Gary

[quote="Scott"]Can she unload onto a freighter from a different fleet?[/quote]
They can prety much do whatever they want to with their boats and their cargos. It's kind of like me asking you if you can put your groceries in the trunk of your car or in the back seat of your car.

[quote="Scott"]Can she unload onto a freighter from a different fleet?[/quote]

Yes. GLF can either pay American Steamship to carry the cargo or they'll arrange for a GLF boat to carrying some ASC tonnage later in the season.

Can she unload onto a freighter from a different fleet?

While crossing the bridge to Duluth this morning saw the Presque Isle with her boom swung over the American Spirit to offload.

[quote="MDM"]Damage to USCG vessels and early fit out commercial vessels suggests that just maybe the locks didn't have to open on March 25[/quote]
The opening date was based on estimates from the US Army Corps of Engineers, US Coast Guard, and NOAA. I'm not sure how or where you believe you could get a better estimate than that. Also, to answer your assertion, if Mackinaw and Alder had found conditions to be much worse than expected, or if the ice had been found to be so bad that it prevented reasonable operation of the lock then the opening would have been delayed.

[quote]and that the subsidy provided by the taxpayer to shipping companies in dealing with ice has now caused significant damage to at least two Coast Guard vessels involved in late winter (Hollyhock) or early spring (Morro Bay) ice breaking operations.[/quote]
There seem to be several things here that you don't understand. The federal government subsidizes interstate highways, railroads, national parks, air travel, and travel by water. Great Lakes shipping is not unique in this regard.

Secondly, Hollyhock's damage was a matter of operational procedure. That procedure has been altered to reduce the risk and appears to be working.

Third, all heavy equipment is susceptible to damage. This includes tractors, mining equipment, construction equipment, and transportation. Go to any mining, construction, big farm location and ask if they ever have to repair damage. You'll find that they do.

Finally, your understanding of risk is faulty. We deal with similar risks almost everyday. Your barge tied up on the river is susceptible to flooding, your ship in port is susceptible to hurricanes, your car driving on a mountain road is susceptible to rock slides, your train running through the mountains in winter is susceptible to avalanches. You try to judge the risk as best you can and work to minimize it. You can't do more than that.

[quote]And the product isn't going to get to the customer any more quickly that if the shipping industry and Coast Guard had waited for ice conditions to resolve.[/quote]
The decision to leave port was not the job of the Coast Guard, the ship owners did their own risk assessment and I'm sure this was seconded by the actual ships' captains. Many ships have not left port yet this season, but on the other hand, traffic seems to be moving quite well on Lake Michigan from Escanaba. The Mackinaw is in Thunder Bay right now breaking ice at the request of Canada. Do you also feel that the Canadian government does not understand about ice and shipping?

[quote]The Coast Guard vessels will have to be repaired at taxpayer expense and may be delayed in ATON work as well.[/quote]
Coast Guard ships are built, repaired, and crewed at taxpayer expense. The Bay Class tugs are tough and quite reliable. Your argument only makes sense if you feel that the design could be improved or is deficient in some way. Ice-breaking is just one job of the US Coast Guard. When the ice is gone, the job will shift to moving 4 ton navigation buoys into place. This job requires deck space. A tug boat has no room for this so two of the Bays have barges with cranes, making them as handy as the Juniper Class ships for this work. There is also search and rescue which requires speed. Obviously a tug is not designed to race out and rescue people like a fast cutter or helicopter, but they are all capable of towing in an emergency. Only Bristol Bay in Detroit and Mobile Bay in Sturgeon Bay have the special, Aids-to-Navigation barges.

Every vessel on the lakes pays a tax on the cargo that it hauls.
It is known as the Harbor Maintenance Tax which is used for every thing except harbor maintenance.

Companies pay taxes just like everyone else and fund federal programs such as the the USCG. Part of the responsibility of the USCG is navigation in summer months and in winter months. These companies use the waterways to efficiently transport raw materials to businesses that require them for their operation which generates money to keep them open and to pay the people that rely on them for work. Some of these companies work in the steel industry, construction, power generation, mining etc. They supply salt for the roads in the winter, coal for power plants and keep this part of the country operational during the winter months. What if we just waited for the snow to melt instead of plowing or salting them in fear that the plow trucks (tax payer funded) may rust or break down. What if just shut down for the winter and tell all of the employees to go home until spring time. We could also take away the USCG cutters and privatize that part and save tax payer money there as well. Until that happens and the USCG says they don't want to be in the ice breaking business there will be some difficult years such as this. Ice breakers were designed to break ice, it is very difficult and hard on the boats, and they do break from time to time. The case might be even made that we need better ice breakers to replace the aging fleet that we have and these will also be at tax payer expense, but money well spent!

[quote="MDM"]Damage to USCG vessels and early fit out commercial vessels suggests that just maybe the locks didn't have to open on March 25 and that the subsidy provided by the taxpayer to shipping companies in dealing with ice has now caused significant damage to at least two Coast Guard vessels involved in late winter (Hollyhock) or early spring (Morro Bay) ice breaking operations. And the product isn't going to get to the customer any more quickly that if the shipping industry and Coast Guard had waited for ice conditions to resolve. The Coast Guard vessels will have to be repaired at taxpayer expense and may be delayed in ATON work as well.[/quote]

Shipping companies, Steel mills, Power plants, Etc are taxpayers too. Individual people I know pay their fair share. But I don't believe that the services provided by the coast guard are totally free to the boats on the Great Lakes. Shippers and mills/plants pay taxes as well. The products they ship are vital to our economy and that's why they are trying as hard as they are to move these vessels. They also are not fitting out early. This is the normal time of year to fit out. Many are waiting to fit out late. But some cannot wait due to demands.

Damage to USCG vessels and early fit out commercial vessels suggests that just maybe the locks didn't have to open on March 25 and that the subsidy provided by the taxpayer to shipping companies in dealing with ice has now caused significant damage to at least two Coast Guard vessels involved in late winter (Hollyhock) or early spring (Morro Bay) ice breaking operations. And the product isn't going to get to the customer any more quickly that if the shipping industry and Coast Guard had waited for ice conditions to resolve. The Coast Guard vessels will have to be repaired at taxpayer expense and may be delayed in ATON work as well.

Presque Isle has hull damage and is returning. The CG Morro Bay has rudder damage and has returned.

Presque Isle is off Grand Portage heading to Duluth alone, making 13 knots

Just watched them arrive on the live web cam.

The three USCG vessels are moving slow about ten miles off the Duluth entrance. I was going to take a picture when they come in, but I might lose the light.

The PI is scheduled to return to Duluth on the 30th for unknown reasons. It appears as though the Katmai Bay, Morro Bay, and Alder are headed back to Duluth as well with the Morro Bay listed on the AIS as "not under command". By the AIS, it appears to be under tow of the Katmai Bay.

Only thing I saw is on the Duluth Shipping News, and that she is arriving on Sunday, March 30 and taking a delay.

What damage did the Presque Isle sustain ice? I would guess that it must have been some sort of damage due to the ice. Can you provide anymore information on the extent of damage and what type she may have suffered? Thanks in advance.