Boatnerd Discussion Forum

years of experience as an O.S

Might have had something to do with it!

From the majority of replies, I get the idea I may have been a better Cadet than I thought. I was shy, so I kept out of everyone's way until asked to do something. This approach resulted in me being asked to do many things. I got asked or told to wheel in the Rivers also (the Officers knew I had earlier Wheeling experience). Since I had years of experience as an O.S., I knew better than to try & tell anyone (including other Ordinaries) how to do their jobs, and I also knew that in the Officers' mess, everyone had their own places, so I asked the 2nd Cook where to sit (fortunately he didn't play a practical joke on me). I knew being a Cadet was a privilege, so I observed. obeyed commands, and did what the Officers & Wheelsman told me to do. I guess being respectful & not making waves paid off.

One day in the engine room I went to get a welding rod to stir my paint and I noticed out of the corner of my eye that the er cadet was watching me. He asked what I was going to do with the rod and I told him. While at the work bench he came with a stainless steel rod and started to saw off a piece. I asked him why he was doing that and he said I was running a good welding rod. I told him where he could go and what he could do with his stainless steel rod and to stay away from me when I am working. A while later he came to me and said it was not his intention to make me mad but he felt it was his responsibility to keep the budget low !!Did I lose it again this time? Yes very much so to this cadet who was into his second week of being on his first ship. Needless to say he never came close to me again and eventually he got kicked off the ship for telling the 2nd engineer how to do his job.

I remember my first cadet assignment on a 1906 built american self unloader. My first encounter with the Third Mate was " we don't like cadets, we don't like your academy, so stand in the corner and don't ask questions. I won't go into the character of the Deck Officers' but only one ever took a liking to me. The unlicensed were helpful but I was not allowed actually help them in their work, only observe, as a union grievance would be filed for taking work away from unlicensed personnel. Needless to say, I really came aboard poorly prepared for what I was to learn or of having any practical prior understanding of anything on a boat. Tough to make a first impression with so much ignorance.
The next cadet assignment was as different as night and day. One Mate took me under his wing and really got me involved with most aspects of the job. He told me with the new vacations the unions had negotiated, that someone was going to have relieve him for his vacation. As a side note, I remember the shipping companies paying full wages and expenses to go to the union license schools if they had the necessary sea time because of the lack of vacation reliefs. I'm grateful for him because I may have been way low on the learning curve when I would get the license. Again, the academy had not sufficiently prepared me and I'd say 75% of the job is learned on the boats!
Fast forward 35 years from when I started. Today it is only harder to come up the hawspipe because for one, the person wheeling the boat isn't in the pilot house on the open lake, except at night or confined traffic situations, so you can't learn the aspects of navigating while working out on deck. Second, advances in shipboard technology, STCW requirements, increased regulation paperwork, add to the knowledge one needs to acquire to do the job making going to a trade school, or academy necessary.
One thought on one of the earlier posts about sitting in the Captain's chair; I can't imagine ever, as a cadet, sitting in any chair in the pilot house let alone the Old Man's. Not even a Mate could sit in the Old Man's chair or any chair. I remember Captain feeling the seat of his chair to see if it was warm from someone sitting in it.

The main problem with the cadets, coming from the trade schools, is just because they read about or saw a picture of how a job is done they want to "fine tune" the people who do the job everyday. They want to supervise or delegate "the crew".

The key to being a Mate or Captain is the same as any other leader in any job. You can't lead further than you have been. Learn All jobs from bottom up.

I was in the cadet program in the 1980s and my first ship was the JWMcGiffin. It was meal time when I boarded the ship and I was told to make my way to the officer's mess, I went through the meal line and had a seat at the table. Another member came in and sat down beside me and started to stair at me. I politely introduced myself with a reply, who I found out was the First Mate, "Your sitting in my seat !". He immediately banished me to a table in the corner by myself during meal time. A week later of being banished in corner, and not one word of exchange between me and this mate, which seemed like hell, I found myself once again in the mess alone with this mate. He approached my table, and started to stair at me once again. He sternly said my spot was not at that table any more, pulled out the chair beside him, and said this is where you sit from now on. I dont know what I did but I must have proved myself some how, as he and I got along after that.I cant remember his name, but he was and still is a mentor in my heart. To all current and future cadets, remember we all must pay our dues to get ahead and to receive any type of respect of those we hope to supervise.

I still remember the night he got fired in the welland canal
A joyfull event Otherwise good ship good crew good runs

Another great story Capt! Thanks!

sydbc wrote:Guest was that on the Atlantic Superior I sailed with both of them

Yes it was. Chief Cook Peter Mancuso tried his best to try and feed me to death.

A couple of stories about cadet.
Most turned out well after a few lessons about shipboard procedure and losing some silly notions of their importance.
I was manoeuvring into the locks in The Welland canal and felt a presence beside me.
It was the first trip cadet who had just joined.
I asked what he was doing and was informed he was observing what I was doing as he was going to be a captain.
In nautical terms I explained to him to find out how things were done on deck first of all.
On another occasion The first trip cadet was having problems hoisting the flags.
I will show you how its done I said to him.
What difference does it make POPEYE he said.
I don't know what his next trip was!!
He watched from the fuel dock as his first ship departed

Guest was that on the Atlantic Superior I sailed with both of them

Many moons ago I too was a cadet, and a timid one at that. My Captain was an old navy man, so I was told, the chief mate a hard nosed, demanding kind of guy, sorta in your face all the time, but if you looked beyond the harshness of his approach, you understood his dedication to his profession and his unorthodox ways of getting his points across. Both were very fair men in my opinion, otherwise I would not post this thirty something years later. Captain John Spencer And Chief Mate John Pace always have a place in my life. Wheeling on the Mississippi was quite the experience....

That is another great story, Captain! My husband felt the same way about people 'working their way up'.
In his trade, he served the required apprenticeship and was often dismayed at those who 'bought' their union cards and immediately received the same salary.

I'm sure 'that cadet' admires you to this very day for what you taught him.

Thank you for the story!

As usual, a good read Captain Metz. As you can see by my post in the "Heavy Weather" thread, I prefer Hawsepipers for the very reasons you listed. Even though I attended a Maritime Academy and spent my 260-some days as a cadet, I had, long before entering the academy, spent ages working as a deckhand, wiper, gateman, & porter. I went to an academy because I was too impatient to make 3rd deck by experience alone. I'm afraid I wasn't a good cadet - too self-effacing, not assertive enough. Plus, through some mess-up, I had only one semester of school before interning on a ship. I chose that 1st ship because it had mostly hawsepipers aboard, & they were less than impressed by a cadet. So I mostly stayed in the Pilothouse & observed. After 2 or 3 weeks of that, the Third (who was to leave due to serious illness), took me aside & said he could understand my shyness, but I needed to "get involved". He was a nice man who encouraged me. I didn't know much, but he had me reporting Drafts, Estimating distances, radioing distances to shift at docks, operating the winches & helping to clean out the ballast tanks in preparation for going to the shipyard. He & a (now deceased) Interlake Captain gave me the confidence & knowledge that I later found invaluable.

Another interesting story Cap! I would think knowing how all phases of running a ship worked would surely be an advantage to a mate. Although I was a teacher all my life, I always thought I'd like to work aboard a lake freighter. Thanks again for your recollections of life on a ship.

The Cadet.

In the seventies, P&H shipping company was into this cadet program where a young man who was enrolled in the Owen Sound Marine School could go aboard one of their ships to learn firsthand knowledge about all phases of shipboard experience. With this experience he could receive his third mate license. I did not believe in the cadet program because I thought to become a third mate you had to start from the ground and work your way up the ladder, like I did. I started as a deckhand and worked my way up learning all the jobs first hand like: cleaning out cargo holds, drying them as to load another cargo, scrapping off rust and then giving these spots a coat of primer paint and then the top coat, handling the mooring cables in tying up the ship, and putting on hatches by running the hatch crane. I started as deckhand in 1964 and it took me until 1973 to get my third mates license. I figured you must know these jobs in order to give orders to the crew.
We had a young lad just out of marine school come aboard as a cadet. He was from a foreign country and could not speak English well. We couldn’t pronounce his name but called him Zoakie which was okay with him. Our cadet expected to wear his white shirt and stay in the wheelhouse all the time. As time went on I noticed every time I entered the pilot house he was either standing in front of the radar or sitting on my chair. The first and last thing I did as I entered the bridge was look into the radar to see if any traffic was near and check our position. I always had to say ‘excuse me’ before I could look into the radar or ‘excuse me, you’re sitting on my chair’. One night I was called to the bridge because a ship was on a collision course with our ship. The mate on watch said he tried calling the other ship but got no answer so he called me. The ship was rolling with reduced visibility as I entered the pilot house and I immediately went to the radar to see the other ship bearing down on us and there was our cadet standing at the radar. I had no time to say excuse me as I bumped him aside and took control of the situation. This happened more and more and finally I told him when you hear me coming up the stairs you leave the bridge and go into the chart room and if you do not like that then you are to leave the pilot house immediately and to never sit in the captains chair again.
The mates were more patient with our cadet then I was by teaching him how to receive the Mafor (weather reports), check the water temp, weather related reports, how to check the ships position, and make a good pot of coffee, etc. When we were at an unloading port our cadet was again standing in the wheelhouse wearing his white shirt. So, while we were unloading our cargo of grain I asked the cadet if he wanted to become a good third mate and he said yes. I asked, well how are you going to become a good third mate by standing in the wheelhouse? I told him a good mate had to know his job in order to give orders to his men. I told him to see the mate and get a pair of blue coveralls, yellow hard hat and gloves and get down into the cargo hold and start cleaning it. I told him that he must work with the deck hands for four hours a day doing what they do. I said you must start from the bottom and work your way up the ladder. Our cadet did not like that and he called the company. They said, ‘He is the Captain’. So we had our cadet aboard for the summer and he worked with the deck hands four hours a day and got out of my way when I entered the wheelhouse and we all got along just fine. When I signed him off and he went back to school he thanked me for all the experience he gained and I told him he will make a fine third mate some day