Boatnerd Discussion Forum

They went out the Superior entry and have been stopped in the ice not too far from the ice edge. It looks that the ice is packed pretty thick where they're at.

Did they go out the Duluth or Superior entry? Surprised to see open water between the Duluth piers this afternoon on the museum webcam.

The ice edge was just west of the Lester. It went back at an angle towards the Superior entry. Ice thickness varies on the lake as there are piles of brash ice and windrows all over. Where you can find a smooth spot to drill a hole, it's around 12" to 18". Ice in the Superior Front Channel just off the red buoys is around 30" to 36".

The Alder cut a path through it this morning and is now out in Lake Superior.

When the wind shifts around to the north and east, you will see ice to the horizon. Then you start getting the ice rows building. That's where the ice breaking come in.

Please, stop this silliness about the Coast Guard being stupid for wanting to break ice. It's like someone saying that they shouldn't plow your side-street because your snowed-in and that you should wait until spring when the snow melts before moving your car. Explain that one to your employer when you can't get into work. Perhaps you think government is wasting money plowing streets, too.

There is the needs of commerce and our economy, and whether mother nature wants to cooperate or not, cargo has to move. It won't be easy, but that is how it is in spring sailing after a severe winter. Icebreaking is the primary responsibility of the Coast Guard, both in the U.S. and Canada.

The icebreakers just have to break a path for the ships to move and maintain that track. If conditions are severe they provide escort.

Hard to tell from Mesaba, but it looked like it went to Lester. Haven't heard anything on the ice thickness. Probably be on the local news tomorrow evening if the Alder does in fact start ice breaking. I'll post if I see or hear anything tomorrow.

Garbear -- How far out does that solid ice extend from the Duluth entry? Past the Lester River? Any word on ice thickness in the harbor?

I just wanted to add to Ray staying in the new Hotel right buy the Alder. You may know this,but Visitors are allowed to get tours of the Alder. My Wife and I used to keep our Camper in the Camp sight next door(lake head boat basin) in the summer season,and when Company would come We would sometimes bring them over to the Alder and ask for a Tour,We have yet to be turned down. Just go to the gate and ring buzzer. They will have a newer sailor show You around,there's always a officer on watch in the Pilot house and they are very gracious.I have sat in the Captains chair a couple times and they will give Me a funny look. I said once(did I do something wrong?) He said (You can sit there!,but I won't.)lol mn brett

[quote="Dave F"]Thank you, Al, for your astute response to this thread. I grow weary of the armchair experts sitting at their home computers proclaiming that someone made "another bad government decision" when said "expert" has only fragmentary knowledge of all of the factors which go into making such a decision. And to write that the Coast Guard is "probably bored and looking for Spring and something to do like the rest of us" is simply insulting to the men and women serving with the USCG.[/quote]

I fully agree. Although I served in the US Navy and not the USCG, I cannot remember ever being "bored" waiting for something to do, regardless of whether my ship was in port or not. In fact, there were times when I was busier while in port than underway on deployment. It must be remembered that a ship's maintenance program requires a significant investment in both material and labor hours. Just because a CG cutter is idle for maintenance and repair, should not lead to the assumption that its crew is sitting around waiting for something to do. The men and women serving in all our military branches deserve our unconditional gratitude.

[quote="Dave F"]Thank you, Al, for your astute response to this thread. I grow weary of the armchair experts sitting at their home computers proclaiming that someone made "another bad government decision" when said "expert" has only fragmentary knowledge of all of the factors which go into making such a decision. And to write that the Coast Guard is "probably bored and looking for Spring and something to do like the rest of us" is simply insulting to the men and women serving with the USCG.[/quote]

Some of the posts are being made by people that have never sailed and don't have a clue what goes on. I don't want it to sound like I'm trying to say just because you didn't sail you can't have an opinion, but like I said in my previous post, think before you hit "submit."

Thank you, Al, for your astute response to this thread. I grow weary of the armchair experts sitting at their home computers proclaiming that someone made "another bad government decision" when said "expert" has only fragmentary knowledge of all of the factors which go into making such a decision. And to write that the Coast Guard is "probably bored and looking for Spring and something to do like the rest of us" is simply insulting to the men and women serving with the USCG.

Usually the first couple trips from here in Duluth are coal for Taconite Harbor and Marquette. That's been going on for years. It's not like the boats are going to transit the entire Lake right away. Al is right, early March icebreaking in Duluth has been going on for decades. I've been here for 35 years and it happens every year. I really think that some of the people that post should think about what they are going to say before they send it. A lot of posts don't make a lot of sense.

Take a look at the open water in some of these satellite photos and you can see why icebreaking has begun. I think these give a better view of the situation than the percentages that seem to be so popular with local TV weatherman: http://coastwatch.glerl.noaa.gov/modis/modis.php?region=g&page=1

Sounds like the CG wants to waist more of our tax dollars and ride around Duluth/Superior making small ice cubes out of large ice cubes. The boats need a little more than a track to operate because the wind will close these tracks just as soon as they are made with 94 % ice on the lake.

The people who make a "bad government decision" like this one actually are smart enough to know that in the coming weeks melting snow in the hinterlands of Duluth will bring warmer water down the St. Louis River, eroding ice in St. Louis Bay and the Duluth and Superior harbors. They start now to get the harbor broken up to speed that process and make it possible for tugs and larger boats to move about when needed. That also allows the icebreakers to work later on the harbor entrances and then start out onto the lake to work a track and break out Two Harbors and Silver Bay. The boats don't need to sail on 94 percent of the lake -- just a track to get them from Point A to Point B. Yes, last year was exceptionally bad, but I really doubt anyone wants to sit around until the end of May this year just to make sure they can poke their nose out of port without scratching some paint. Give the people who do this some credit. They've started ice breaking in Duluth in early March for decades and the vast majority of the time it gets traffic moving early.

To both Ray and edm, I agree whole heartedly 100% on both of your comments Gentlemen. First for Ray, I agree as to how and why people want to try and test the ice and walk out there when they have been forewarned not to! They have been talking on the local news here in Detroit, about ice caves on Lake Michigan and warning folks not to venture out on the ice yet the people want to heed the warnings anyway. To them, I don't have no sympathy as you get what you ask and pay for especially when you have been warned! Also, glad to see that the CG and others now want people to pay up for ice rescues when they endanger the CG and others. For edm, I also agree with Superior 94% covered where is Alder going to go to? They are probably bored and looking for Spring and something to do like the rest of us. Don't make no sense that they are talking about the Sykes and Dorothy Ann/Pathfinder leaving layup soon! What will it take for these companies to wake up? Can't they see what the ice is like and the conditions out there?

With that lake being 94 % ice covered - just why is the CG breaking ice ? Just where do they think they are going ? Looks like another bad government decision at this point.

Stayed at the new hotel next door to the Coast Guard station on Park Point this past weekend, very little activity at the station that would indicate it is nearly time to start spring operations. Was a little surprised to see people walking on the ice out past the lighthouses and a number of foot prints in the snow between the piers. I wouldn't care to try that, knowing there is a current under the ice, but apparently the ice is solid out the piers and well out in to the lake.

To update a story in the News section of this site. The Coast Guard now says they aren't going to start icebreaking in the Twin Ports until Monday, March 9th. An announcement is to be made to the reason behind the change sometime today.