Boatnerd Discussion Forum

Shipwatcher1 wrote:Has there been some rumor on the Manitoba?

I would hope that LLT will hold onto her for a long time to come. She's certainly in the best place she'll ever be with them.

My dad was Captain on the Kerr the '68 season and pat of the '69 season. I went on for summer trips both years before I started sailing in '70. Spent a lot of time in the pilot house and took the wheel myself out in the lake. Never was there a mention of her handling; my dad said she was a good boat to sail. On the other hand, as HayHugh mentioned, the Buffington who my dad captained in '65, was a tough one to handle for the wheelsman.

Has there been some rumor on the Manitoba?

Canada has few museum ships, unlike the USA which has tons, so hopefully one could be justified, especially in light of the removal of the museum in Kingston. I agree the Manitoba would actually be a better choice, like the HMCS Sackville she would be easier and less costly to preserve.

Her engines are the Fairbanks Morse opposed pistons that were commonly installed in Collingwood motor vessels at the time.

The Manitoba's time may be up sooner than we think......

If we can't save a 730'x75' straight deck steamer, the most representative of the first generation of Seaway vessels, perhaps the Manitoba when her days are done?

Her smaller size, albeit atypical of this era, would be an asset in preservation. And she has the same fine lines as larger vessels like the Montrealais, including the lack of self-unloading gear cluttering up her deck.

And her OP's probably were the most common type of diesel installation in Seaway construction in the latter half of the 1960's and early 1970's after steam turbines fell out of favor.

RIP Algoma Montrealais, shame she wasn't preserved. I had hoped she just might come out one last time, but it was not to be.:(

Hopefully someone can save just one example of these fine ships, maybe the Frontenac someday?

Never heard about the crunch into the Duluth breakwater, and yes that would be a good picture to see!

Yeah, I wasn't implying that the record loading had anything to do with her tumultuous trip to the scrapyard but more along the lines of affecting her handling throughout her career. I agree that there isn't any evidence that the load affected her structural integrity but I have always heard that there was a twist in the hull following the rapid load. It'll probably never be substantiated.

THere were 59 years between the record loading time and the sinking at sea; presumably quite a number of rough weather trips during the years active in which the Kerr came through just fine. That is an awful stretch to draw a causal connection between the record loading stunt and breaking up on the scrap tow.

The 5 years the Kerr was laid up without maintenance before the scrap tow, running head-on into (clean through) the Duluth breakwater at the start of the scrap tow, then running aground in the Welland Canal before reaching the ocean all would be a lot more likely causal events for why the Kerr never made it to the scrap port than the 1921 record load.

Still would love to find a picture of the crunch into the Duluth breakwater - has to be one out there somewhere.....

The Kerr did, in fact, load 12,508 tons of ore in 16.5 minutes in June 1921 -- but is was a staged event to see how fast it could be done. The Kerr was pumped dry before loading began and she didn't go under the chutes until all the dock pockets were fully loaded. The Kerr then loaded all 35 hatches simultaneously.

Several years later (1943), the Kerr set a then unloading record by discharging 14,275 tons of ore in 2 hours 45 minutes at Conneaut, O.

Perhaps, which may be why they never repeated it.

But the only thing I ever read about the D.G. Kerr was speculation that perhaps that event had done some structural damage that weakened her just enough, that it finally reared its head when she entered a bad storm on the Atlantic Ocean on her scrap tow.

Of course, other freighters have also foundered on their scrap tow, including younger vessels with a lot of life left in their hull. They're not designed for such stresses and even a brand new laker could suffer such a fate, so that bit of speculation will always be just that.

I had heard at one time that the D.G. Kerr was also "tweaked" resulting from her record loading time in Two Harbors of 12,507 tons of iron ore in 16 1/2 minutes...can anyone substantiate that claim or will remain as a rumor forever?

Guest wrote:Can't remember her name, but wasn't there an American freighter that had a bad accident that was repaired and never handled right again?

I believe the story is that she was actually crooked after being repaired, with one side actually an inch or two longer than the other side when she was surveyed years later.

Not sure if that is just a boatnerd legend.

Discussed here: http://newsearch.boatnerd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=78009

Paul Tietjen is one, Eugene Buffington another.

Can't remember her name, but wasn't there an American freighter that had a bad accident that was repaired and never handled right again?

I believe the story is that she was actually crooked after being repaired, with one side actually an inch or two longer than the other side when she was surveyed years later.

Not sure if that is just a boatnerd legend.

BobG wrote:I've seen her so many times over the years (including shortly after her "handshake" with Algobay), she is like an old friend.
By that measure I've lost many old friends in recent years.
Always loved the name, too.

On the subject of her 1980 collision with the Algobay, did she handle any differently following the reconstruction? The reason I ask is that I once had a car that was in a major accident and although it was fixed up to look like new, it never seemed to ride the same way again. I was just wondering if anyone has ever noticed something similar with ships.

After the fiasco with the City of Toronto and the Jadran, I doubt any city will undertake having a rusty relic on its precious waterfront.

I've seen her so many times over the years (including shortly after her "handshake" with Algobay), she is like an old friend.
By that measure I've lost many old friends in recent years.
Always loved the name, too.

Very nice sentiment guest. I always enjoyed these two beautiful ladies delivering cement clinker to Duluth. Mr. Papachristidis contracted the finest marine Architects for his fleet.

Very well said. She will live in our minds eye.