Boatnerd Discussion Forum

Data recorder retrieved and has providing 26 hours of navigation data and voice recordings, some understandable and some perhaps not. Dead in the water with flooding and at a least a 15 degree list with a hurricane bearing down. Sad to hear that the Captain ordered the ship to be abandoned roughly 10 minutes before the data recorder stopped recording. It sounds like it was not a quick catastrophic sinking like most of us had hoped.

And the fact that no bodies were recovered and only one was even spotted tells you how violent and desolate the sea can be.

[u][url]http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2016-08-26/story/each-new-discovery-helps-clarify-final-moments-doomed-el-faro[/url][/u]

Reuters reported they did:

http://www.inquisitr.com/2478580/el-faro-disappearance-body-found-in-survival-suit-near-ship-debris-in-the-bahamas-one-lifeboat-still-missing/

I don't believe any bodies were recovered from the El Faro. The Coast Guard discovered one but left it at sea (to continue searching for potential survivors).

The other things I forgot to mention was that they were similar in size, with only about 60 feet difference, that the El Faro was built the year the Fitz went down, & that the initials of their names are the same letters.

Not to mention, only one body from each was found (left in place with the Fitz) & reportedly recovered with El Faro, probably only because of the survival suit. Then there were the communications between the Anderson & the Fitz as compared to the communication with El Faro & the satellite call to the office - both with sketchy information passed verbally without enough detail about the conditions on the ships at the time for us to learn what was really wrong, then there's both captain's choice to head into the storms, both ships were steam turbine powered which for the El Faro, is unusual today for an ocean going ship, both were American registered, both went down with all hands, & had a similar compliment of crew on board. Both had the old style open lifeboats even though the newer enclosed ones have been around a while & are becoming the standard now. It all strikes me really odd when I think about it. It's as if we didn't learn anything. Even with all the modern tech & new ways of doing things, we still have mayhem happen anyway. Mother Nature trumps all our attempts to convince ourselves that we're in control & sometimes that illusion costs us lives when we become overconfident in our modern day way of doing things.

Someone equated it to the Edmund Fitzgerald, and I was sceptical at first. But when you start to think about it, they headed out into a storm. They had water leaking in, had a damage issue whether it be to the engine or hull like the fitz. The last word was that they were basically "holding their own" so to speak which was the famous last words from the Fitz. Both disappeared without any but small debris albeit it was a totally different category of wind and waves for el faro, but then again she was a ocean going vessel so it's kind of relative to the body of water they were each on.

Heard on NPR yesterday that at sunset on that day (Oct 7) the Coast Guard regretably were calling off the search.

The company also has the option of replacing a Captain who won't take the vessel to sea with one who will.

Found an interesting article which sheds further light on the way sea captains consider their options in storm conditions. Note the credit on the accompanying photo. http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/10/el-faro-sinking-bahamas-cargo-ship-coast-guard-joaquin/408964/

Sadly the fact that the El Faro was built in 1975 made her 40 years old, a very long lifetime for a container ship plying the oceans. I join all mariners worldwide in sending the families our heart felt condolences .

[quote]Sounds like a lack of communication between the Captain and the front office.

[/quote]

I was referring to a conversation (or lack of) before vessel left Jacksonville. The Captain is responsible for vessel when underway, the office, for vessel getting underway. The Captain has to answer to Coast Guard for his decisions, but you never hear from the office at an CG investigation.

Joaquin rapidly intensified on Thursday shortly after the call to her owner.

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/151003_Joaquin_adt.GIF

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/blog/archives/19662

The ship was in contact with its owners, via Inmarsat, where they talked about the list and the loss of power. Soon after this conversation, the U.S. Coard Guard received an EPIRB signal from the Inmarsat, and subsequently contacted the owners. The search started after that.

Sounds like a lack of communication between the Captain and the front office.

Well, then that begs the question- What's typical protocol when dealing with this type of storm (not a Hurricane YET) then? How many other ships were out there in this area at that time? Would you normally leave port under these circumstances?

It was reported that an EPIRB signal was picked up once, on October 1 I believe, but has not been received since.

If they work, here are links to the ships path, and storm predictions over time.

[url]http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:454389/mmsi:368208000/imo:7395351/vessel:EL_FARO[/url]
(Click on Last position received, then on Show Track. Subtract 4 hours from the UTC times on Marine Traffic to get EDT. )

[url]http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2015/graphics/al11/loop_3W.shtml[/url]


As a guest mentioned, it was still classified as a tropical storm for almost 24 hrs after the ship left Jacksonville at around 12:01 am EDT on Tuesday October 29th. (Voyage 185S, Depart Jacksonville 9/29/15, arrive San Juan 10/2/15) But still, its roughly a 4 day voyage, so things changed a lot over that time.

Why is it that no one has mentioned a absence of the EPIRB signal since indications are that something drastic has happened?

Multiple life rings, a life preserver, at least one container and an oil sheen have been spotted. All of which will likely focus the search area.

Reports are sketchy, but it sounds like Crowley Maritime was contracted and sent at least one and perhaps several of their Invader-class ocean tugs towards the area shortly after the distress call was received. I can't imagine being on a tugboat heading directly into a hurricane.

Informational website set up by TOTE Maritime: [url]http://elfaroincident.com/[/url]

[quote="Denny"]If I am not mistaken, I believe that they may have found possibly a life ring from the vessel? I thought I saw and briefly read about that yesterday in some article? Other than that, it does not sound or look like they have found much of anything thus far. As one had said and mentioned earlier, it does indeed sound like something to be related with the Edmund Fitzgerald sinking.[/quote]

Denny-You are correct.

http://www.local10.com/news/search-continues-for-cargo-ship-33-crew-members-missing-at-sea/35636664

[quote="William Lafferty"][quote]What was that ship doing getting caught out in that storm?[/quote]
This is a very good question. When the vessel left Jacksonville, it was clear that Joaquin was a hurricane and could easily grow in power. The [i]El Faro[/i] took the "fast" route to Puerto Rico east of the Bahamas, rather than the protected route between Florida and the Bahamas. This decision took the freighter directly into the most furious part of the escalating storm. The [i]El Faro[/i] carried a large number of vehicles (trucks, trailers, and automobiles) on its lower deck, which had a number of openings seaward, as well as containers on the main deck. These are highly unstable cargoes in extreme weather. Also troubling is the vessel's apparent complement of two open lifeboats exceedingly high above the waterline, as the link in the photograph I posted below indicates. How could these possibly be successfully launched from a capsizing vessel in category 4 seas and winds?

The (tragic) irony here is right now there is a number of Great Lakes vessels anchored awaiting weather, not even remotely of hurricanic proportion, many of which have inclined quick release, enclosed lifeboats.[/quote]

When the vessel left Jax Joaquin was only a tropical storm with a projected Nly track. These vessels were very good in heavy weather so the route doesn't really surprise me. The storm intensified and moved SW which is an odd occurrence. The number of openings you see are on the vessels main deck. Each hold has a large watertight door located well below where you see the "openings" The weather deck where you see containers was at one time was a RORO deck.
As far as the cargo goes I have personally been on container ships and ROROs that have rolled 20+ degrees without cargo shift.

As far as the open boats go, blame the USCG and ABS for allowing vessels to sail with them. If they were without power and listing there is hope that the crew was able to prepare the rafts and don survival suits for an orderly departure.