Boatnerd Discussion Forum

If either get painted, it would be the Cornelius first as she has to get a 5 year before she can resume sailing.

I would not be looking forward to seeing Buffalo in ACR colours. Likely just logo on stack and name change which would be maybe Algo Buffalo. These boys do not believe in paint.

Algoma workers have tested the electronics and most of it, if not all of it is obsolete. Generators are working
on board and plans are to have it out of Huron by the end of March. Told that when the Maple Leaf is flying and the stack has been painted to Algoma colors, the Cornelius will leave soon afterwards. That has been maybe a week ago or a little longer.

Can't answer about the Cornelius, American Valor or Victory but on the KYS facebook page there is some recent photos of the Buffalo in Sarnia during Winter layup and it appears that no activity so far as taken place. I even thought about it today and it has been about three months since the sail and the only noticeable change to her has been the US flag replaced by the Canadian flag. So the point is that no painting has taken place yet as far as Algoma colors and just as important, No new names have been welded onto her either so it leaves one to wonder just how much longer and when Algoma plans to really start work on the Buffalo? I guess time will tell there.

Has there been any activity around the Buffalo at its winter dock in Sarnia or any other activity around the layup docks of the Cornelius, Victoy or Valor? With March here wondering if we may see something afoot soon.

Is it possible that Algoma Marine is trying to get the Essar Algoma contract back from Lower Lakes. Essar is not anyone's favorite to have a contract with but it has been a backbone contract for Grand River/Lower Lakes and has served them very well.

Another thought is they'll use the larger ships on the ore and grain movements to the St. Lawrence ports and the river class for salt, stone and potash moves in the upper lakes.

My guess is they didn't want any of the competition to buy them!

Has Algoma secured some new contracts that required the purchase of the Buffalo and Adam E. Cornelius? I ask because I find it strange that they left the Algorail idle this year and while it and the Algoway are slated for retirement, the company is going to receive two new river class vessels next season. Or was this acquisition also influenced by the pending retirements of the Algoma Olympic, Algolake, and Algosteel?

KYS Facebook has several photos showing the American Victory move.

Went by American Victory about noon today (29th), a big Heritage tug sitting alongside. A Fraser crew was just driving up.

Tug [i]Helen H.[/i] has been breaking ice at the old Northern Pacific ore dock and alongside the [i]American Victory[/i] at the Elevator M dock this morning (December 28th.) We might expect the rumored move of the [i]Victory[/i] today; she would theoretically be towed to NP to free up Elevator M for winter layup use.

The Algoma strategy will be to run the diesels hard until they drop. Minimal maintenance approach. Milk them for all they are worth, then send them to the scrap yard. They won't repower or invest heavily in any existing diesel...makes more economic sense for them to build new like they've been doing. That's a smartly run operation. Might make for some ugly rust buckets to look at on the lakes, but they aren't in the business of running a beauty paegent for us boat nerds.

Any idea how much it costs to register a large vessel in Canada?

It seems like it could be a lot of money to spend if all you are going to do is sell it for scrap?

Perhaps the American Valor could provide some of Algoma's salt movement requirements, much of which, if I'm not mistaken, are cross border shipments and therefore Jones Act compliant. I also believe that most of the salt shipped from Goderich goes to destinations above the Welland Canal and therefore its length may not be a hindrance but an asset. Perhaps Algoma could get 10-15 years of service out of the vessel and save some wear and tear on its newer units.

"All four ships are former U.S. flag lakers that will be transferred to the Canadian registry for service in the Great Lakes - St. Lawrence trade. The Company’s purchase of these vessels and the on-going delivery of new builds combine to make the Company a leader in the marine industry."

Above text is copied from Algoma's statement. It states The Company's Purchase. If they leased them would it not say The Company's Lease of these vessels?

[quote="Guest"]The 645 EMD's are a conventional single crank 90' V engine just like what's in your F150.[/quote]

Sorry I mean 45'

According to the NOAA database, the Adam E. Cornelius was owned by Edison Steamship Company while the John J. Boland is owned by Franklin Steamship Company and the St. Clair is owned by Bell Steamship Company. It appears that the Indiana Harbor was previously owned by a partnership but the database does not give the date that ASC took over ownership.

I knew that the American Republic was on long term lease to ASC years ago and now as we know when the lease ran out she was picked up by CN/Key/Great Lakes Fleet and renamed Great Republic. I was not aware, until recently, that the Buffalo was also not owned outright. How many of ASC's other vessels are not owned outright?

[quote="ashland69"][quote="Mr Link"]I tend to think that the days of Canadian repowerings and stern conversions ended when the tariff on new foreign-built ships was eliminated. Repowering makes economic sense south of the border, but not up north, except for certain specific circumstances.

I just see Algoma running the two diesels with minimal maintenance until they drop dead.[/quote]

At the end of the day, you're probably right. If the steamers can't be sold, they'll likely be scrapped. Personally, I'd like to see the Valor end up with Van Enkevort and be converted to a tug/barge unit and the Victory go to Interlake and being upgraded like the Lee A. But, knowing how the corporate brain seems to work, these steamers will likely end up being converted into knives, forks and spoons.[/quote]

I would caution any inference to "corporate" greed concerning the fate of the Valor or Victory.
Great Lakes shipping is a very profit sensitive business where the margins are slim and all decisions will ultimately effect the employment of vast numbers of sailors and others.
All one needs to do is look at Oglebey Norton and their demise and now the current situation with Rand.
The reality is that a company can't afford to invest in upgrading or converting a boat that will have a limited life span in a volitile marketplace that has cyclical patterns and is no where near predictable.
A case in point is Interlake and the Sherwin a few years back. Finishing the re powering and conversion to a self unloader could have possibly led to their financial downfall. In stead they invested in re powering the active boats in their fleet which was a prudent long term investment that already is paying dividends.
I would have loved to see the Sherwin back out again but thankfully the Corporate Brain at Interlake were cooler heads and when the Iron Ore/Pellet market contracted they weren't stuck with $$ invested in a surplus boat sitting at the wall.
My best guess is that Algoma is looking for short term tonnage to help meet the overseas demand for pellets moving from Duluth/Superior out the Seaway. The Buffalo and ACE could provide that and also fill the need to river class deliveries elsewhere.
They might also sense the possible demise of Rand and are positioning themselves to move into those markets as needed.