Ships stuck in ice question

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Re: Ships stuck in ice question

by Bookworm » November 17, 2019, 8:40 pm

Guest wrote:How would the Anderson have known that the ice was anchored to the bottom of the lake outside Conneaut, as happened in 1979? They wouldn't have known until they got to Conneaut.

Climatologically, winds are from the southwest on Lake Erie, so the type of issue that the Anderson had in 2015 is not common. It only occurs when there is a substantial ice cover on Lake Erie, and you also have a sustained wind from the north that pushes the icefield towards the south shore, which can then pack the ice below the surface of the lake - sometimes to the bottom of the navigation channel.
A post further down this thread details four weeks in that case. Maybe the crew (and/or upper management) had no climatological knowledge, but indications to scrap the Conneaut trip kept piling up.

Re: Ships stuck in ice question

by Guest » November 17, 2019, 5:27 pm

How would the Anderson have known that the ice was anchored to the bottom of the lake outside Conneaut, as happened in 1979? They wouldn't have known until they got to Conneaut.

Climatologically, winds are from the southwest on Lake Erie, so the type of issue that the Anderson had in 2015 is not common. It only occurs when there is a substantial ice cover on Lake Erie, and you also have a sustained wind from the north that pushes the icefield towards the south shore, which can then pack the ice below the surface of the lake - sometimes to the bottom of the navigation channel.

Re: Ships stuck in ice question

by Guest » November 17, 2019, 3:21 pm

Guest wrote:On that trip the Anderson had departed Buffington on Feb. 5, 2015 in ballast for Conneaut to load coal to be delivered to Gary. By Feb. 11 they were downbound in the St. Clair river having been stuck in ice and freed several times at the south end of Lake Huron. They departed the fuel dock in Detroit on Feb. 13. On Feb. 14 they became beset in ice 42 miles from Conneaut. By Feb. 17 they had made it to within 3 miles of Conneaut where they remained until Feb. 21. On Feb. 21 the trip to Conneaut was abandoned and they departed for Sturgeon Bay and layup under escort by two CCGS vessels. They arrived in Detroit on Feb. 23 and remained there until Feb. 26 while waiting for CG orders to proceed. They departed Detroit on Feb. 26. and were beset in ice many times before arriving at Sturgeon Bay on March 4. The whole trip took 4 weeks !
How much do you think that trip cost the company?

Who would have made the initial decision to try the trip and then as time went on and things started looking bad who is making the decision day to day to keep trying to go get the load or to just quit and go home?

Does someone get chewed out or fired over something like this or is it just considered that everyone was doing their best with the weather/ice information they had available?

Re: Ships stuck in ice question

by Syd bc » November 17, 2019, 3:18 pm

In January 79 the Algoway got stuck at the entrance to Goderich harbour We spent 10 days stuck against the break water The whole crew packed groceries across the ice and we used hoses from the fire dept to take on water We got free on the 15th With tug and coast guard help Laid up in Sarnia on 16th

Re: Ships stuck in ice question

by Guest » November 17, 2019, 2:20 pm

Ahhh, don’t forget the big traffic jam of ice bound vessels in lower Lake Huron and St. Clair/ Detroit rivers back in the eighties,, forget the exact year. Maybe 83 or 84?

Re: Ships stuck in ice question

by Guest » November 17, 2019, 11:07 am

The Roger Blough was trapped outside Conneaut, Ohio starting pn February 7, 1979 and the USCG icebreaker, Westwind, had to ferry supplies and fuel out to the Blough. The ice was piled right to the lake floor. On February 15, 1979 she was freed by the Westwind ans then escorted into Conneaut to unload. A few days later she was upbound in the Detroit river.

In mid-January 1978, several vessels were trapped in ice between the Detroit river and Cleveland for over a week. They were; Cliffs Victory, William G. Mather, J. Burton Ayers (now Cuyahoga), Crispin Oglebay (later Canadian Transfer), Robert C. Norton and Joseph H. Frantz.

Re: Ships stuck in ice question

by Guest » November 17, 2019, 8:48 am

On that trip the Anderson had departed Buffington on Feb. 5, 2015 in ballast for Conneaut to load coal to be delivered to Gary. By Feb. 11 they were downbound in the St. Clair river having been stuck in ice and freed several times at the south end of Lake Huron. They departed the fuel dock in Detroit on Feb. 13. On Feb. 14 they became beset in ice 42 miles from Conneaut. By Feb. 17 they had made it to within 3 miles of Conneaut where they remained until Feb. 21. On Feb. 21 the trip to Conneaut was abandoned and they departed for Sturgeon Bay and layup under escort by two CCGS vessels. They arrived in Detroit on Feb. 23 and remained there until Feb. 26 while waiting for CG orders to proceed. They departed Detroit on Feb. 26. and were beset in ice many times before arriving at Sturgeon Bay on March 4. The whole trip took 4 weeks !

Re: Ships stuck in ice question

by tugboathunter » November 17, 2019, 12:28 am

That was 2015 that the Anderson couldn’t get into Conneaut. It was going there to load, so they eventually just went back to Sturgeon Bay for layup where it remained until spring 2017.

That same winter, in 2015, the Purvis Marine barge PML Ironmaster became stuck in ice in the lower St. Marys River, and was left there for the entire winter while its tug made it up to Sault Ste. Marie.

Re: Ships stuck in ice question

by Bookworm » November 16, 2019, 7:51 pm

hugh3 wrote:One of the Great Lakes Fleet AAA's could not make it into Conneaut a few years back. Don't remember where they went to unload.
That was a long, frustrating, last run of the season for Arthur M. Anderson and crew. Someone who knows/remembers the facts can give you the story.

Re: Ships stuck in ice question

by hugh3 » November 16, 2019, 7:25 pm

One of the Great Lakes Fleet AAA's could not make it into Conneaut a few years back. Don't remember where they went to unload.

Ships stuck in ice question

by jp- » November 16, 2019, 5:16 pm

Has there ever (or at least in the last 30 years) been a ship that has been stuck in the ice, unable to be freed until spring? Someone I was talking to mentioned that they thought that they remembered seeing a story online 10-15 years ago about a Great Lakes ship that was trapped in ice and had to remain there until spring. Supplies were dropped by helicopter to the crew. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

Any info would be appreciated

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