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by **Jon Paul** » January 20, 2020, 8:47 pm

johnfrombrighton wrote:Jon Paul

Great photos.

Which ship were you on? Why did the Munson swing its boom? Even with its sharp bow, did the Patton ever get damaged cutting ice like it did?

Thank you - very much - for sharing.

I was on Charles M White, a sister ship of the Patton. To my knowledge neither of the C4 triplets or Victory for that matter incurred any major ice damage during the WNP.
The Munson had been swinging it's boom over each side of the boat trying to break the grip of the ice.
In the Patton photo we had met them as they were departing Escanaba. There was several feet of solid blue plate ice in places snd between the White and Patton it was quite loud out on deck watching. It basically opened a North/South trail for others to follow.

by **BMCS** » January 20, 2020, 7:39 pm

I was a young Boatswains Mate aboard the USCGC Raritan at the time. I believe that we were breaking out Escanaba during that period.

by **johnfrombrighton** » January 20, 2020, 6:43 pm

Jon Paul

Great photos.

Which ship were you on? Why did the Munson swing its boom? Even with its sharp bow, did the Patton ever get damaged cutting ice like it did?

Thank you - very much - for sharing.

by **tugboat** » January 20, 2020, 3:03 pm

You are missing one other important part of that convoy to Cleveland, the tug Barbara Ann. She was hired to break ice for the convoy in Detroit.

by **Guest** » January 19, 2020, 8:10 pm

I'm glad to read that others liked the write-up I did on the convoy and it's experiences from January 18 to 28, 1978.

I've been wanting to write a complete write-up on the Winter Navigation Program of the 1970s and detail the specifics of all the Winters. This information is being lost to history due to the many of the participants having passed on. (Jon Paul and Garbear were young men when they sailed in the Winter Navigation programs of the 1970s and it's great to read of their experiences.) It's extremely important that this information is saved and written up for future generations.

But trying to find time in my life to do so, has been difficult. I work in the meteorological field for a Canadian media company and I've studied the Winters of the 1970s extensively. I also do wildlife photography which eats into my time. So doing a complete write-up is taking far, far longer than I had imagined.

Images that Jon Paul has presented are very important to showcase the vessels that participated in the demonstration program and also what the conditions were like for both vessel and crew.

The only Canadian icebreaker that was assisting on the lakes during January to March of 1978 was the Griffon. The big Canadian icebreakers would come to the lakes in late-March or April - as occurs today.

by **Guest** » January 19, 2020, 4:17 pm

I remember those days. We didn’t have the high tech cold weather clothing available today. Bundled up in so many layers you couldn’t move. I Didn’t get warm until June lol. Miss sailing but not the winter days.

by **Jon Paul** » January 19, 2020, 2:39 pm

I have posted all of these before. I sailed the Winter Navigation Program in 76-77-78 as a deckhand/AB watchman/wheelsman. In the winter of '78 we laid up in S. Chicago on Feb. 21 and then fit out in April on the 3rd.
The photos of the Calumet River tugs and the USCGC Arundel were taken due east of downtown Chicago after they had been besieged by ice trying to break out the Munson. We broke them all out and led convoy to S. Chicago.
The photos taken of us busting out the Pontiac were taken in Feb 78 in Rock Island Passage. Even with a 4000 hp steam turbine they weren't able to free themselves.
As grueling as the sailing in the WNP was, I was lucky and had a great boat and was part of a very good crew.

by **guest** » January 19, 2020, 2:23 pm

One cannot over look the Canadian Ice breakers who were likely involved in this operation also.

by **Guest** » January 18, 2020, 9:23 pm

The locks were open year-round at that time.

Many ships were forced into running late that Winter because of the miners strikes on the Minnesota and Michigan Iron Ranges that had been settled in December 1977. Ships that wouldn't run in such severe conditions normally because they were under-powered then had to operate for as long as possible in order to replenish the ore yards.

Mother Nature had a different opinion about that. In meteorology we call the late-1970s Winters, the Disco Winters. And of course they were abominable with intense cold, frequent snows, and lots of ice.

by **Darryl** » January 18, 2020, 7:56 pm

Wow. I knew there had to be a pretty good story behind the Headline. Sorry about that - mixing up the J. Burton Ayers with the Courtney Burton. I also had to wonder if the Soo Locks were open past January 15th that year. If not these boats must have been slow moving through out the whole system.

by **Alex** » January 18, 2020, 7:26 pm

The Cliffs Victory had steam turbines rated 8,500hp, the Frantz had diesel rated 4,000hp, the Mather steam turbines 5,500hp, the Norton and Oglebay (both maritimers) each had triple expansion steam 2,500hp, the Ayers (maritimer) had a Lentz compound 2,500hp.

by **Guest** » January 18, 2020, 3:59 pm

I'm the person who sent the information to the news page about 10 years ago.

Yes, the Northwind would have been assisting later but not at the beginning.

The Cliffs Victory with the most horsepower would have been in the lead.

The convoy was formed on January 18 but they used each other to keep the other going. Well, in theory that's how it's suppossed to work. But in actuality they became quickly bogged down with the vessels slowly dispersing.

The Cliffs Victory was the first to reach Cleveland on January 22, but the others took longer. The Joseph H. Frantz arrived on January 25, Robert C. Norton and Crispin Oglebay on the 26th.

But poor J. Burton Ayers. She was the straggler of the group and had only gotten as far as Pigeon Bay when on the morning of the 26th a White Hurricane roared through the area bringing whiteouts and gusts of 97 knots. Atrocious weather to say the least but Northwind was able to break her free and get her through Pelee Passage. (During the time that the Ayers was trapped, the USCG brought emergency rations via helicopter to the vessel.)

by **Guest** » January 18, 2020, 2:55 pm

The Ayers was a Maritimer. She had a 2500 hp Lentz.

by **Guest** » January 18, 2020, 1:19 pm

I believe the USCGC Northwid was breaking ice for the convoy moving west from Detroit to Lake Erie ports - Cleveland,,,

by **Guest** » January 18, 2020, 12:33 pm

I thought the JB Ayers is a maritimer, I'm surprised they'd even have Maritimers out read somewhere they used to have a hard time loaded with a current in the st claire or detroit river

by **Darryl** » January 18, 2020, 11:03 am

Today In Great Lakes History - January 18, 1978

Boatnerd today ran this following headline:

In 1978, the CLIFFS VICTORY, JOSEPH H. FRANTZ, WILLIAM G. MATHER, ROBERT C. NORTON, CRISPIN OGLEBAY and J. BURTON AYERS formed a convoy in the Detroit River bound for Cleveland.

In picturing this convoy, I presume they were in heavy ice and maybe the Cliffs Victory was in the lead. The only other ship that could possibly be out front would be the J. Burton Ayers. I think the Cliffs Victory had a steam turbine with 10,000 horse, and the JBA about 7000? Unless the Old Mackinaw was breaking ice for them.

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Today In Great Lakes History Jan. 18 1978

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Today In Great Lakes History Jan. 18 1978