Boatnerd Discussion Forum

by **Guest** » April 26, 2020, 9:04 am

Guest wrote:“Your analogy is flawed...I can tell the 911 dispatch my neighbor's address, or even my address. But if I'm doing winter work in a territory that I'm not in constantly, Id be unable to direct the fire company in.”
I also drove around the Toledo docks for 35 year’s attaching vessels and going home on shore leave while at a dock. To this day I could not give you road names to get into any of those docks or to be able to tell a 911 operator how to get a fire crew to a vessel.

After departing our unloading dock in Green Bay one afternoon, we had to return with an injured crew member. The 911 operator ask me for the address. I knew the name of the dock and the nearest Main Street behind us. It had a drawbridge but not the actual address. Just look for the really big ship at the dock. The rescue team was able to find us.

by **Marc** » April 25, 2020, 7:04 pm

Interesting to note that less than 1 week after the St. Clair fire, the Algoma Guardian had a smoke scare while laid up in Port Colborne.

The incident on the Algoma Guardian could have turned out just like the St. Clair, but the response from the ship-keeper and fire department stands out in 180-degree contrast to what happened with the St. Clair in Toledo just 6 days earlier.

The Algoma Guardian had smoke alarms that alerted shipkeeper who actually called 911. The Port Colborne Fire Department responded immediately and knew exactly how to get there because they board and inspect every vessel that lays up for the winter there. None of these things happened with the St. Clair.

From the Welland Tribune:

A ship-keeper's quick actions averted a potential fire on board the Algoma Guardian Wednesday night in Port Colborne.

Port Colborne Fire and Emergency Services Chief Tom Cartwright said alarms on the vessel, docked on Barber Drive, alerted the ship-keeper to a problem. Cartwright said the man found smoke in a control room area and he shut down power to the ship, which was coming from a shore-based power station.

"They were lucky he picked up there was a problem."

When vessels dock for winter maintenance or just dock for the winter season, the fire service boards them all. "As soon as they come in the crews go on board and find out where the ship-keeper will be, where the records are … we prebuild a fire plan for every ship that is tied up."

by **Guest** » April 25, 2020, 3:57 pm

“Your analogy is flawed...I can tell the 911 dispatch my neighbor's address, or even my address. But if I'm doing winter work in a territory that I'm not in constantly, Id be unable to direct the fire company in.”
I also drove around the Toledo docks for 35 year’s attaching vessels and going home on shore leave while at a dock. To this day I could not give you road names to get into any of those docks or to be able to tell a 911 operator how to get a fire crew to a vessel.

by **Guest101** » April 23, 2020, 10:23 am

Yes I was referring to the multiple calls to several people rather than just calling 911 when the smoke was first spotted. Not that it would have made a difference, the report says the hydrants and water around the boat were frozen.

by **hausen** » April 23, 2020, 9:35 am

I think what's being referred to here isn't the geographical path, it's the decision-making path; why wasn't the very first telephone call to 911?

by **shirtofgreen** » April 23, 2020, 7:26 am

Guest wrote:
guest101 wrote:After reading the full report, to me it seems like there was some major oversite problems for the boat in layup. Why werent there at least some smoke detectors with so much welding? Why the strange chain of calls for the person reporting the smoke instead of just calling 911?
I found the path it took to call the fire department somewhat strange. Kind of seeing a fire burning at a neighbors house and calling them at work instead of the fire department. This whole incident brings up a lot of questions to say the least.

as a contractor working on the docks, I wouldnt even begin to explain how to get to the dock.

Your analogy is flawed...I can tell the 911 dispatch my neighbor's address, or even my address. But if I'm doing winter work in a territory that I'm not in constantly, Id be unable to direct the fire company in.

by **Guest** » April 22, 2020, 9:25 pm

American Steamship didn't provide written operating procedures to be followed when a ship is in a layup state especially when hotwork is being done onboard the vessel. One would think such a protocol would be in place.

And I think what exacerbated the white smoke that was observed, but it's source not identified, was starting the starboard exhaust fan with the port-side gangway open. It could have created a chimney effect which would have added fuel to the unidentified open heat source.

by **Guest** » April 22, 2020, 7:11 pm

guest101 wrote:After reading the full report, to me it seems like there was some major oversite problems for the boat in layup. Why werent there at least some smoke detectors with so much welding? Why the strange chain of calls for the person reporting the smoke instead of just calling 911?

I found the path it took to call the fire department somewhat strange. Kind of seeing a fire burning at a neighbors house and calling them at work instead of the fire department. This whole incident brings up a lot of questions to say the least.

by **guest101** » April 22, 2020, 5:24 pm

After reading the full report, to me it seems like there was some major oversite problems for the boat in layup. Why werent there at least some smoke detectors with so much welding? Why the strange chain of calls for the person reporting the smoke instead of just calling 911?

by **Guest** » April 21, 2020, 3:24 pm

geysir wrote:Just a few sensible policies and procedures would have prevented this catastrophe.
Require a fire watch for 2 hours after hot work
Require ship keeper on board after hot work
Require portable heaters to be unplugged when unattended.
No leaving work site until source of smoke identified and secured.
No smoking at work site.

I enjoyed my vacation relief job on the ship and am sad to see it destroyed.

Those are some very common sense procedures. From reading through the NTSB brief, it appears that this could have been prevented at many points throughout the accident timeline up to the point that the fire grew out of control.

by **geysir** » April 21, 2020, 2:52 pm

Just a few sensible policies and procedures would have prevented this catastrophe.
Require a fire watch for 2 hours after hot work
Require ship keeper on board after hot work
Require portable heaters to be unplugged when unattended.
No leaving work site until source of smoke identified and secured.
No smoking at work site.

I enjoyed my vacation relief job on the ship and am sad to see it destroyed.

by **Bookworm** » April 21, 2020, 12:24 pm

garbear wrote:I apologize if this is already been posted.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... AB2015.pdf

Informative and much appreciated.

by **Guest** » April 21, 2020, 12:02 pm

I don’t think it has. Anyway, gives all the information we expected and already knew

by **Guest** » April 21, 2020, 11:34 am

No need to apologize Garbear. This is the first time I've seen a report from the NTSB on the St. Clair fire. A previous report was from the USCG, but didn't go into depth as to possible cause, much less photos of the interior.

Brian

by **garbear** » April 21, 2020, 10:18 am

I apologize if this is already been posted.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... AB2015.pdf

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