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[quote="Guest"]Can someone confirm that pilots are on board at all times when salties are on the lakes? The experts in the chats on the Port Huron live cams seem to think that they only do the rivers.[/quote]

They are on board at all times when the vessel is underway. They depart at docks during cargo ops, but if the vessel is transiting, lake or river, it need to be under the direction of a pilot, either US or Canadian.

This might explain why there are few if any Canadian flagged ATB's.

Regards, John

Thanks for bringing to light the issue on the Canadian side of the ATB entering Canadian ports, requiring Pilot on board

Can someone confirm that pilots are on board at all times when salties are on the lakes? The experts in the chats on the Port Huron live cams seem to think that they only do the rivers.

[quote="Old Sailor"]There is a loop hole of major proportions in regard to what type of vessels are required to have a Pilot on board. Tugs are not require to have licensed Pilots because of their reduced Gross Tonnage. So tugs only need two licensed Masters of appropriate Gross Tonnage (if operating over 12 hours in a day}for the tug operated. If you tow or push a barge of any size, you don't have to have a Pilot. The exception is the Presque Isle because they are not capable of towing outside of the notch. Some companies, like Interlake, require over time that the Captain and Mates write for Pilotage. Without getting into the Politics, the operators of ATBs are never physically required to prove that these large self unloading barges can safely operate outside of of the notch on a towline in all weathers, though the barges are rigged with a towline from bow to stern.
In my one experience on a ATB observing, The Captain was from Louisiana, and the Open waters Mate did not show any experience upon the waters he/she was serving.
With the Straits being designed Pilotage Waters only concerns self propelled vessels required by the Gross Tonnage.[/quote]

Old Sailor, the loophole you point out is even more complicated with the 2 nations involved. As you point out U.S. tugs of any size can navigate anywhere on the Great Lakes without certification, including to Canadian ports deep within Canadian compulsory pilotage waters. However a Canadian tug in an arrangement over 1500Gt (which isn't very much) is required to have a certified pilot everywhere they go including the wide open undesignated U.S. a waters. Clearly not level playing field!

There is a loop hole of major proportions in regard to what type of vessels are required to have a Pilot on board. Tugs are not require to have licensed Pilots because of their reduced Gross Tonnage. So tugs only need two licensed Masters of appropriate Gross Tonnage (if operating over 12 hours in a day}for the tug operated. If you tow or push a barge of any size, you don't have to have a Pilot. The exception is the Presque Isle because they are not capable of towing outside of the notch. Some companies, like Interlake, require over time that the Captain and Mates write for Pilotage. Without getting into the Politics, the operators of ATBs are never physically required to prove that these large self unloading barges can safely operate outside of of the notch on a towline in all weathers, though the barges are rigged with a towline from bow to stern.
In my one experience on a ATB observing, The Captain was from Louisiana, and the Open waters Mate did not show any experience upon the waters he/she was serving.
With the Straits being designed Pilotage Waters only concerns self propelled vessels required by the Gross Tonnage.

In designated waters, the pilot is required to be on the bridge navigating. In undesignated waters, which are open waters, the pilot needs to be available but not necessarily on the bridge

I thought the Straits were compulsory pilotage for foreign vessels already.

I've attached an interesting story about the Straits. I'm not aware of this type of things happening before.

https://upnorthlive.com/news/local/resolution-on-way-to-president-that-would-make-straits-of-mackinac-designated-waterway