aGuest wrote:Many P&I clubs (most of these are entities in London) will neither insure nor allow their members vessels to enter the Great Lakes because of the pilotage thing.
Somebody here said the US pilots liability is unlimited-, um, I don't think that is even remotely close to true in practical terms.
One of the most influential maritime people on the planet said that operating in the Great Lakes reminds him of operating in the dodgiest of the third-world countries, that's just plain embarrassing to have to hear.
A pilot's liability is limited in Canadian waters to a specific value, but not in U.S. waters. However, while in all Canadian waters, navigation must be conducted by a certified pilot, U.S. waters are divided between designated and undesignated. In U.S. undesignated waters the pilot "must be available to direct navigation at the discretion of the master" - clearly an optional adviser role. In U.S. designated waters the pilot must direct navigation "subject to the customary authority of the master".
In both designated and undesignated waters of the U.S. the wording brings the master into a role of authority/responsibility, possibly limiting the pilots liability.
Its understandable the P&I clubs and shipping company's avoid the Great Lakes. The situation is very confusing. Canadian pilotage authorities want to encourage the interpretation that "conducting navigation" equals "having the con". However most nations would interpret "the con" as having "control" which is more intricately involved than the oversight of "conducting navigation".
The "conducting navigation" in Canadian waters is very comparable to the U.S. "directing navigation" in designated waters.
Its a mess of misunderstandings that very few at any level of the industry have tried to resolve. Administrators and authorities don't want to acknowledge misunderstanding exists. Those in the wheelhouse see the unspoken jockeying and uncertainty, of who has what role, that occasionally distracts from the safety of the maneuver.
For the salties that deal with different pilotage policies around the world it must be a challenge.
[quote="aGuest"]Many P&I clubs (most of these are entities in London) will neither insure nor allow their members vessels to enter the Great Lakes because of the pilotage thing.
Somebody here said the US pilots liability is unlimited-, um, I don't think that is even remotely close to true in practical terms.
One of the most influential maritime people on the planet said that operating in the Great Lakes reminds him of operating in the dodgiest of the third-world countries, that's just plain embarrassing to have to hear.[/quote]
A pilot's liability is limited in Canadian waters to a specific value, but not in U.S. waters. However, while in all Canadian waters, navigation must be conducted by a certified pilot, U.S. waters are divided between designated and undesignated. In U.S. undesignated waters the pilot "must be available to direct navigation at the discretion of the master" - clearly an optional adviser role. In U.S. designated waters the pilot must direct navigation "subject to the customary authority of the master".
In both designated and undesignated waters of the U.S. the wording brings the master into a role of authority/responsibility, possibly limiting the pilots liability.
Its understandable the P&I clubs and shipping company's avoid the Great Lakes. The situation is very confusing. Canadian pilotage authorities want to encourage the interpretation that "conducting navigation" equals "having the con". However most nations would interpret "the con" as having "control" which is more intricately involved than the oversight of "conducting navigation".
The "conducting navigation" in Canadian waters is very comparable to the U.S. "directing navigation" in designated waters.
Its a mess of misunderstandings that very few at any level of the industry have tried to resolve. Administrators and authorities don't want to acknowledge misunderstanding exists. Those in the wheelhouse see the unspoken jockeying and uncertainty, of who has what role, that occasionally distracts from the safety of the maneuver.
For the salties that deal with different pilotage policies around the world it must be a challenge.