by ashland69 » November 21, 2011, 1:34 pm
Guest wrote:Skip Gillham and I just put out a book, "The Kinsman Line." In this research I found nothing in this regard, but even so I would not rule it out entirely that the Collins and Shiras were sold to Kinsman as a "payment" for the loss of the Humphrey.
However, keep in mind the Pittsburgh fleet took delivery of the five "Super Class" ships in 1942, and three Maritime Class ships in 1943, so they had replacement tonnage for the two that went to Kinsman.
Also, the Collins and the Shiras were part of the Hawgood (Acme Transit) purchase in 1916, of six 400 foot ships which were very much alike, and vintage. The Pentecost Mitchell and the Herman C. Strom were traded for the Maritime Class vessels in 1943, but used until the end of the War, then scrapped. The R.R. Richardson was sold to another fleet and continued service in 1940. The John H. McLean was trasfered to U. S. Steel's American Steel & Wire Division in 1943 and converted to a crane ship, named the Clifford F. Hood. Then the Shiras and Collins went to Kinsman in 1944. One could assume from this that Pittsburgh was disposing of its 400 footers during World War II, and using only their 600 footers. Thus the Collins and Shiras went to Kinsman as expendable, rather than as a payment for the Humphrey. I might add that the Hood as a crane ship was the last 400 footer in the U. S. Steel fleets, until she went to scrap in 1974.
Also, the Collins and the Shiras fit well into the Kinsman fleet since their other vessels were of similier size and age. Add to this that Kinsman was consentrating on grain cargos, and 400 footers were better suited for this trade at this time, and afterwards.
So although possibly profitable, the Collins and Shiras were part of a pattern and expendable to the expanding Pittsburgh fleet, and as such we can't say they were sold only, if at all, to pay for the lost Humphrey.
Dick Wicklund
An interesting sideline to the history of Kinsman is that, at the end, John Eckert and I were quietly "working" together to find ways to extend the life of the company. One thing John and I were looking at was installing a relatively inexpensive and portable vacuum system aboard the
Kinsman Independent (currently
Ojibway) to make her a faster unload and enable her to do other other grain runs during the summer slowdown. A second thing we were seriously looking at was aggressively going after the bulk cement trade up to the Lakehead so the
KI would not have to layup during the summer because of the annual downturn in grain into Buffalo. A third thing was we were looking at was buying either the
Courtney Burton or
Joseph H. Frantz and get Kinsman back into the self-unloader trade and diversify the fleet a bit. If we were successful at getting either one, it was going to be renamed
Kinsman Conveyor. Finally, John had connections at National Steel and, I think, he had begun talks with them about eventually taking over the ore run into Zug Island and run the George A. Stinson as
Philip Minch. Unfortunately, George got a little upset that I, an unpaid employee at the time, was able to do something that his existing office staff could've and should've been doing themselves! And, for other reason(s), sent John packing and shut down the fleet!! A darn shame. So unnecessary. But that was George, as I understand it. Shoot first and ask questions later. Kinsman had a long and colorful history. All the way back to 1842 when old Philip Mich built his first boat on Lake Erie, near Vermilion, I think. But alas, the corporate brain only looks at the bottom line!
-Craig Gammon
[quote="Guest"]Skip Gillham and I just put out a book, "The Kinsman Line." In this research I found nothing in this regard, but even so I would not rule it out entirely that the Collins and Shiras were sold to Kinsman as a "payment" for the loss of the Humphrey.
However, keep in mind the Pittsburgh fleet took delivery of the five "Super Class" ships in 1942, and three Maritime Class ships in 1943, so they had replacement tonnage for the two that went to Kinsman.
Also, the Collins and the Shiras were part of the Hawgood (Acme Transit) purchase in 1916, of six 400 foot ships which were very much alike, and vintage. The Pentecost Mitchell and the Herman C. Strom were traded for the Maritime Class vessels in 1943, but used until the end of the War, then scrapped. The R.R. Richardson was sold to another fleet and continued service in 1940. The John H. McLean was trasfered to U. S. Steel's American Steel & Wire Division in 1943 and converted to a crane ship, named the Clifford F. Hood. Then the Shiras and Collins went to Kinsman in 1944. One could assume from this that Pittsburgh was disposing of its 400 footers during World War II, and using only their 600 footers. Thus the Collins and Shiras went to Kinsman as expendable, rather than as a payment for the Humphrey. I might add that the Hood as a crane ship was the last 400 footer in the U. S. Steel fleets, until she went to scrap in 1974.
Also, the Collins and the Shiras fit well into the Kinsman fleet since their other vessels were of similier size and age. Add to this that Kinsman was consentrating on grain cargos, and 400 footers were better suited for this trade at this time, and afterwards.
So although possibly profitable, the Collins and Shiras were part of a pattern and expendable to the expanding Pittsburgh fleet, and as such we can't say they were sold only, if at all, to pay for the lost Humphrey.
Dick Wicklund[/quote]
An interesting sideline to the history of Kinsman is that, at the end, John Eckert and I were quietly "working" together to find ways to extend the life of the company. One thing John and I were looking at was installing a relatively inexpensive and portable vacuum system aboard the [i]Kinsman Independent[/i] (currently [i]Ojibway[/i]) to make her a faster unload and enable her to do other other grain runs during the summer slowdown. A second thing we were seriously looking at was aggressively going after the bulk cement trade up to the Lakehead so the [i]KI[/i] would not have to layup during the summer because of the annual downturn in grain into Buffalo. A third thing was we were looking at was buying either the [i]Courtney Burton[/i] or [i]Joseph H. Frantz[/i] and get Kinsman back into the self-unloader trade and diversify the fleet a bit. If we were successful at getting either one, it was going to be renamed [i]Kinsman Conveyor[/i]. Finally, John had connections at National Steel and, I think, he had begun talks with them about eventually taking over the ore run into Zug Island and run the George A. Stinson as [i]Philip Minch[/i]. Unfortunately, George got a little upset that I, an unpaid employee at the time, was able to do something that his existing office staff could've and should've been doing themselves! And, for other reason(s), sent John packing and shut down the fleet!! A darn shame. So unnecessary. But that was George, as I understand it. Shoot first and ask questions later. Kinsman had a long and colorful history. All the way back to 1842 when old Philip Mich built his first boat on Lake Erie, near Vermilion, I think. But alas, the corporate brain only looks at the bottom line!
-Craig Gammon