Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

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Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest Who » February 5, 2025, 9:11 pm

Yes, that was the Phoenix Star, ex J. W. Shelley, ex Valgocen, ex Algocen (2) scrapped at Toledo Ironhead in Aug 2013. I remember seeing the collapsed texas deck and pieces of the blue hull being railed out of the yard across Front Street. Quite the mess and a sad sight indeed.

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 4, 2025, 8:59 pm

Guest wrote: February 4, 2025, 10:50 am Wasn't the rail ferry that was laid up at the Interlake dock at DeTour scrapped at the Soo the US side sometime in the 2000's?


Sounds like the tariff thing is over . Strange way the negotiate border issues.
That was the Atkinson

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 4, 2025, 10:50 am

Wasn't the rail ferry that was laid up at the Interlake dock at DeTour scrapped at the Soo the US side sometime in the 2000's?


Sounds like the tariff thing is over . Strange way the negotiate border issues.

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 4, 2025, 5:48 am

Guest wrote: February 3, 2025, 2:57 pm
Mn bob wrote: February 3, 2025, 12:10 pm Are there any scrapping yards on the u.s. side?
The last vessel to be scrapped on the U.S. side of the lakes was the Algocen (sorry, I can't recall what her name was when she was painted blue) and was scrapped in the drydock in Toledo. So no, there are no scrapping yards in the U.S. At one time there was a scrapping yard in Ashtabula, but it was shutdown in the late 1980s when the company was scrapping the Merle M. McCurdy.

The scrapping of ships was discontinued due to strict EPA regulations and environmental liability reasons. That's why U.S. lakers have been scrapped in Port Colborne in recent years.

Stelco in Hamilton has seen steel order cancellations, so that will impact their Nanticoke steel mill.

Tariffs will impact both economies overall, as businesses don't like uncertainty. But it depends on how long they're in place.
Arthur K Atkinson, William H Donner both werre scrapped at MCM in Sault Sainte Marie. The J B Ford would be most recent, having slowly been cut up at Azcon in Duluth in 2022

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest 1 » February 3, 2025, 11:37 pm

Guest wrote: February 3, 2025, 2:57 pm
Mn bob wrote: February 3, 2025, 12:10 pm Are there any scrapping yards on the u.s. side?
The last vessel to be scrapped on the U.S. side of the lakes was the Algocen (sorry, I can't recall what her name was when she was painted blue) and was scrapped in the drydock in Toledo. So no, there are no scrapping yards in the U.S. At one time there was a scrapping yard in Ashtabula, but it was shutdown in the late 1980s when the company was scrapping the Merle M. McCurdy.

The scrapping of ships was discontinued due to strict EPA regulations and environmental liability reasons. That's why U.S. lakers have been scrapped in Port Colborne in recent years.

Stelco in Hamilton has seen steel order cancellations, so that will impact their Nanticoke steel mill.

Tariffs will impact both economies overall, as businesses don't like uncertainty. But it depends on how long they're in place.
I thought the Phoenix Star was scrapped at Toledo about 10 years ago? I remember a deal fell through and it was a mess.

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 3, 2025, 6:02 pm

In regards to the Manitoulin needing both U.S. and Canadian ice breaker assistance. It's very common for icebreakers from either country to assist vessels in the waters of the other country. That's because through diplomatic agreements between Canada and the U.S., the Great Lakes are considered bi-national waterways. Those agreements benefit both countries.

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 3, 2025, 4:55 pm

Azcon Metals has a scrapyard in Duluth that cut up the J.B. Ford less than ten years ago and also many ships in the 80s and into the 90s. The William H. Donner was also cut up in Soo Michigan just a few years ago.

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 3, 2025, 2:57 pm

Mn bob wrote: February 3, 2025, 12:10 pm Are there any scrapping yards on the u.s. side?
The last vessel to be scrapped on the U.S. side of the lakes was the Algocen (sorry, I can't recall what her name was when she was painted blue) and was scrapped in the drydock in Toledo. So no, there are no scrapping yards in the U.S. At one time there was a scrapping yard in Ashtabula, but it was shutdown in the late 1980s when the company was scrapping the Merle M. McCurdy.

The scrapping of ships was discontinued due to strict EPA regulations and environmental liability reasons. That's why U.S. lakers have been scrapped in Port Colborne in recent years.

Stelco in Hamilton has seen steel order cancellations, so that will impact their Nanticoke steel mill.

Tariffs will impact both economies overall, as businesses don't like uncertainty. But it depends on how long they're in place.

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Mn bob » February 3, 2025, 12:10 pm

Are there any scrapping yards on the u.s. side?

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Geest » February 3, 2025, 11:12 am

Assuming these ill-concieved tariffs remain in place there will be significant impacts to shipping on the lakes. Part of the competitive edge the lakes enjoy is the volumes of product that can be moved cheaply, particularly in aggregates. The moment that price point shifts to unprofitable buyers will look elsewhere. There are significant amounts of ore, coal , stone, salt and grain that move between the two countries that I would think are at risk of being lost, possibly for good if the tariffs remain.

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 3, 2025, 8:07 am

Algoma Innovators headed to Ashtabula and Algoma Bear on her way to Milwaukee both loaded with Salt from Goderich Ontario , so we have a Canadian Cargo mined in Canada by an American Company ( Compass Minerals ) on Canadian ships to American Ports , who knows how this works , although it seemed to have been working just fine before the recently imposed tariffs , I believe the Manitoulin ( recently stuck in the ice off Buffalo) had just delivered Canadian grain from Thunder Bay to Buffalo , oddly she was rescued by both American and Canadian Ice Breakers , things appeared to be working just fine on our Great Lakes.

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 3, 2025, 3:30 am

A Canadian tax on imports of US steel and machinery could change the dynamics of scrapping US vessels in Canada.

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 3, 2025, 3:26 am

Bookworm wrote: February 2, 2025, 8:17 pm I've had concerns about the impact as well and am waiting for someone with knowledge to lay out the potential repurcussions for Great Lakes shipping. Certainly the increased cost of marine fuel (from Canada) will cut into profits for American shipping companies.

Thats an interesting one - would the US CBP consider fuel purchased in Canada and loaded into o laker in Canada an import?
Otherwise the US companies can just purchased fuel in Duluth, Superior, Chicago, Detroit and Toledo where US refineries/terminals are located instead. At one time the US midwest refineries ran on crude oil pumped up from Texas/LA/Ok/Kansas via pipeline and mixed with local production. That was years ago before the refineries began to run larger and larger amounts of much lower cost Canadian syn crude

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 2, 2025, 10:26 pm

These are some bulk commodities moving by great lakes freighters between countries- met coke and petroleum coke, coal, road salt, and specialty ores. I'm sure any additional costs for shipping will be passed on to the end users.

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Bookworm » February 2, 2025, 8:17 pm

I've had concerns about the impact as well and am waiting for someone with knowledge to lay out the potential repurcussions for Great Lakes shipping. Certainly the increased cost of marine fuel (from Canada) will cut into profits for American shipping companies.

Re: Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 2, 2025, 8:12 pm

Guest wrote: February 2, 2025, 1:05 pm I'm not sure everyone appreciates what could happen here. Since most of the fleets are laid-up, the impact of vessels operations will be muted for while. But I imagine Canadian steel exports by barge from the Soo mill will be impacted immediately. You can usually get steel from other suppliers. I assume the vehicle manufacturers will continue to move parts and finished vehicles for awhile but 25% in extra costs will certainly put a damper on the export of vehicles and parts from one country to another.

Wonder if the Canadians will put a tariff/duty on repairs done in US yards?
I should have added salt cargoes assuming it is being moved from Canadian mines to US ports. Not sure if that happens often if at all

Impact of Tariffs on the Great Lakes Fleets

by Guest » February 2, 2025, 1:05 pm

I'm not sure everyone appreciates what could happen here. Since most of the fleets are laid-up, the impact of vessels operations will be muted for while. But I imagine Canadian steel exports by barge from the Soo mill will be impacted immediately. You can usually get steel from other suppliers. I assume the vehicle manufacturers will continue to move parts and finished vehicles for awhile but 25% in extra costs will certainly put a damper on the export of vehicles and parts from one country to another.

Wonder if the Canadians will put a tariff/duty on repairs done in US yards?

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