Boatnerd Discussion Forum

[quote=Guest post_id=273444 time=1751890673]
[quote="Up North George" post_id=273441 time=1751846307]
There is no reason to rescind the Jones Act. This would decimate US Shipping. This would make our water ways unsafe and would be against US national interest. To have foreign nations in control of shipping in the US would make the US vulnerable to foreign nations.
If nothing else Trumps agenda is pro US companies and US workers. We can 100% build vessels of any type that is needed. If there is a mandate the US can do it. History alone tells us that. We should absolutely have an investment into the US shipping industry.
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Is that why they are looking to Finland to build the ice breakers? I have worked on many foreign flag vessel in my life and they are no less safe then US flag vessels. In this day and time they all fall under the same IMO/SOLA rules and are inspected by class whether it be ABS, LLoyd's, DNV Class NK etc.
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I second this post. I've worked on foreign flag ships for the majority of my career and they are equal or better than US flag ships in all safety and operational aspects. In fact, some/most are better maintained. Indians and other nationalities serving on these ships are just as much professional and knowledgable than American sailors. Some Filipino crew are being used on US-flag ocean-going ships when American sailors are not available. The Masters and Chief Engineers of these ships all wish they had more Filipinos as the work output goes up 200%.

I've never bought into the "national defence" focus on Jones Act subjects. Expanding the Jones Act on a military basis is not what is needed - commercial opportunities will better justify a fleet expansion. This would require not only financial assistance from the government, but committed orders from domestic shipowners. There needs to be legislation to ensure cargos are available for this expanded fleet. While recent proposed legislation attempts to address some of the perceived shortcomings (e.g. SHIPS Act) and support from the Oval Office, perhaps positive changes are coming to benefit the US flag fleet. In the end, if there is a military usefulness for new domestic-built ships, the money will be there, there is never a shortage of military money in the US.

[quote="Up North George" post_id=273441 time=1751846307]
There is no reason to rescind the Jones Act. This would decimate US Shipping. This would make our water ways unsafe and would be against US national interest. To have foreign nations in control of shipping in the US would make the US vulnerable to foreign nations.
If nothing else Trumps agenda is pro US companies and US workers. We can 100% build vessels of any type that is needed. If there is a mandate the US can do it. History alone tells us that. We should absolutely have an investment into the US shipping industry.
[/quote]

Is that why they are looking to Finland to build the ice breakers? I have worked on many foreign flag vessel in my life and they are no less safe then US flag vessels. In this day and time they all fall under the same IMO/SOLA rules and are inspected by class whether it be ABS, LLoyd's, DNV Class NK etc.

[quote="Up North George" post_id=273441 time=1751846307]
There is no reason to rescind the Jones Act. This would decimate US Shipping. This would make our water ways unsafe and would be against US national interest. To have foreign nations in control of shipping in the US would make the US vulnerable to foreign nations.
If nothing else Trumps agenda is pro US companies and US workers. We can 100% build vessels of any type that is needed. If there is a mandate the US can do it. History alone tells us that. We should absolutely have an investment into the US shipping industry.
[/quote]

This is the same argument that has been made about foreign shipping for decades and its nothing more than protectionism. Foreign vessels, which have been coming to U.S. waters for decades, will all of a sudden become unsafe and a danger to U.S. national interest if the Jones Act is revoked. That is not very logical. If the Jones Act is so great, then why isn't the U.S. shipbuilding booming considering the protection it gives industry?

The Canadian fleets have made major investments in their fleets over the past 10-15 years, but except for a handful of ATBs by a couple of operators and the entry into service of the Mark W. Barker (which I'm very happy to see Interlake Steamship make such an investment), no other U.S. lake fleet has built replacement vessels. We all have to admit that the oldest vessels are now pretty ripe, considering the number of loading and unloading cycles those hulls have endured and it doesn't appear that fleets want to make large capital expenditures, other than Interlake Steamship.

I wouldn't hold my breath that the Trump Administration would invest money into a national shipbuilding program. The administration, if anything, wants to downsize government even at the expense of the very people that voted him in.

There is no reason to rescind the Jones Act. This would decimate US Shipping. This would make our water ways unsafe and would be against US national interest. To have foreign nations in control of shipping in the US would make the US vulnerable to foreign nations.
If nothing else Trumps agenda is pro US companies and US workers. We can 100% build vessels of any type that is needed. If there is a mandate the US can do it. History alone tells us that. We should absolutely have an investment into the US shipping industry.

In order to launch a national merchant shipbuilding program in the United States as occurred in 1936 and 1970 through legislation, absolutely massive investment by the government would be needed. In 1970 it was direct subsidy to the shipyards. Despite the Executive Order issued in April, given the present overall political climate, I don't see that happening. A far more rational response by this government would be to revoke the Jones Act and allow foreign vessels to trade among American ports, a goal of the right since the act was enacted. This solves the shipbuilding problem, using other' vessels, and would greatly affect the maritime labor market, which I doubt would be of much actual concern except to those who would be directly affected. Revocation of the Jones Act would also solve the American shipbuilding "problem," since American operators could have vessels built in foreign yards. The present Great Lakes fleet would be replaced by specifically the types of salties that now enter the lakes. I'm sure CSL would be thrilled to bring the Jebsen self-unloaders it acquired into the lakes and dominate the trade. Fincantieri, by the way, is 71% owned by CDP Equity S.p.A, which in turn is 100% owned by Cassa Depositi e Prestiti S.p.A., which is 83% owned by Ministero dell'Economia e delle Finanze (the Italian Ministry of Economics and Finance). With Austral and other foreign actors getting into the shipbuilding game here, it's becoming difficult to determine what is actually an "American" shipbuilder. Is having a major builder of American naval vessels (Marinette Marine) being controlled by a foreign government (even a friendly ally) a good idea? Any shipbuilding renaissance in this nation, if it occurs which is highly doubtful, it will be focused upon military shipbuilding, while merchant shipbuilding will be determined by the bottom line and nothing else.

The American fleet is getting old, sooner or later they'll have to be replaced and not by large vessels but vessels more like the Mark Barker which can haul multiple types of cargos

In todays news page it was announced that Fincantieri shipbuilding has appointed a new director of U.S. operations. It also mentioned a hope in the upsurge of shipbuilding in America with the election of Donald Trump. If there were to be a surge in new ship builds, what would that look like? Personally, with the decline of traditional Great Lakes cargoes of ore and coal, is the building of new ships even feasible? I suppose that companies could be enticed to build given the same financial tax benefits that led to the surge in thousand footer builds in the 70's and 80's. Just my take.