Boatnerd Discussion Forum

A this point, I do plan to be in St. Clair.

I was lucky enough in my youth (early 70s) to work next to E.J. "Shine" Sundstrom at the Soo Evening News. He wrote the Three Long Two Short marine column. He typed with 2 fingers, brought his dog Toivo to work with him on weekends and earned a number of awards for his Edmund Fitzgerald coverage. He knew the eastern Upper Peninsula like the back of his hand, and covered everything that went on on the waterfront with expertise. He retired eventually, but was replaced by a guy named Jack Storey, who always had interesting things to say. Then the paper was bought by the Gatehouse media chain, Jack was (my opinion at this point) unceremoniously retired in a staff reduction and that was the end of any kind of reliable waterfront coverage in the Soo. Heck, Boatnerd's news page has beat the Soo paper to stories more than once, especially if something happens on a weekend!

[quote="RogerKYS"]In addition to Ron's spot on comments . newspapers like the Detroit News, Free Press, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Sault Ste. Marie News and on and on actually used to have real reporters whose job it was to cover the waterfront and the shipping scene. They knew the boats and the sailors and their subject matter. As newspapers have declined over the past several decades (and I say so as a former newspaperman who was a victim of that decline) those kinds of specialized beats have disappeared. So what happens is you get an event like the Jackson/bridge incident (which happened on an overnight shift, home to probably one of the more inexperienced reporters) and some editor goes and tells whatever 20something working the shift to go write about it. They do the best they can, but they have no real expertise so you get what you get. Honestly, the only thing Detroiters are going to care about in this case is how long the bridge will be closed. That information will satisfy 99 percent of the readers and that's all newspaper management cares about. If this were the 1960s, the Detroit marine reporters – guys named Curtis Haseltine and Stoddard White – would have been gotten out of bed by the city desk and sent down there to cover the story. And I guarantee you there would have been photos, interviews and more. But those days, alas, are long gone. The media in Detroit uses its resources now to cover murder, crime corruption and the like to the exclusion of almost anything else.[/quote]

Sorry to hear that you were a victim of the decline in newspapers. I enjoy reading the old marine reports in the Soo Evening News (1970s to 1980s) that are available through a newspaper archive service I belong too. The reporting was very professional and a joy to read. Today, unfortunately, in addition to inaccuracies in media stories, the number of spelling mistakes are unbelievable. It seems to me, and this is my personal opinion, that over the years the reporting of news has taken on what I would call an entertainment value.

By the way Roger, are you going to be at the Marine Flea market in St. Clair next month?

There is a common error in the postings about the Jackson and the Windoc. In both cases the[u] bridges [/u]came down prematurely and the boats hit the bridges. Not the other way around. A correct commonality is the state of the bridge tenders; a doper in Welland and a drunk in Detroit.

In addition to Ron's spot on comments ... newspapers like the Detroit News, Free Press, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Sault Ste. Marie News and on and on actually used to have real reporters whose job it was to cover the waterfront and the shipping scene. They knew the boats and the sailors and their subject matter. As newspapers have declined over the past several decades (and I say so as a former newspaperman who was a victim of that decline) those kinds of specialized beats have disappeared. So what happens is you get an event like the Jackson/bridge incident (which happened on an overnight shift, home to probably one of the more inexperienced reporters) and some editor goes and tells whatever 20something working the shift to go write about it. They do the best they can, but they have no real expertise so you get what you get. Honestly, the only thing Detroiters are going to care about in this case is how long the bridge will be closed. That information will satisfy 99 percent of the readers and that's all newspaper management cares about. If this were the 1960s, the Detroit marine reporters – guys named Curtis Haseltine and Stoddard White – would have been gotten out of bed by the city desk and sent down there to cover the story. And I guarantee you there would have been photos, interviews and more. But those days, alas, are long gone. The media in Detroit uses its resources now to cover murder, crime corruption and the like to the exclusion of almost anything else.

So will the state and/or county have to pay for the repairs to the Jackson?

As to the Detroit newspapers publishing information, news and/or stories about the freighters and/or their business, its not going to happen anymore unless its an exceptional news event. The Detroit papers are struggling just to maintain their present status which is a shell of what they were. What would be great would be to have the Marine Review magazine reborn, or perhaps more readers and circulation of the Seaway Review magazine.
Ron

I can understand that, but in my experience, the typical news media usually get many of the common sense facts wrong. The reader or viewer doesn't know any better & then think the bad information is really real, or it leaves someone like me that knows about the subject feeling confused because the story is all screwed up. That's just sloppy reporting & fact checking but it happens all the time.

Bob Haworth uploaded the radio transmission between the Jackson and USCG after the collision.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVfrs1dOO4A[/youtube]

Summers in Ludington, I'd ride my bike every day from our cottage to the news agency on North Rath to get the [i]Detroit News[/i] and read Stoddard White's marine column (as well as other news). Those were the days.

I'm not trying to provoke an argument here, but as a former reporter who covered a lot of shipping news in Duluth I can tell you that in a general news article about a vessel accident, you just aren't going to get a history lesson about when and where the ship was built. That's great for us history and lake buffs, but for the typical reader who wants to know what happened and why, how it might affect local businesses, and how he or she might be affected, it's largely irrelevant. Sort of like when there's an airplane accident, you don't get a lesson on when and where the aircraft was built just because it represents a positive phase in Seattle's history.

Don't forget also that Interlake Steamship is celebrating their 100th anniversary season out on the Great Lakes also this year and their "flagship" the Paul R. Tregurtha and largest ship on the Great Lakes opened the Soo Locks also. Yet, there is no mentioning of these events in any of the Detroit public newspapers also. I can remember years ago in the early 1990's when they had the Speer open the Soo Locks and they had a brief story in the Free Press and a black and white picture of it. Now you hardly ever see much on the shipping in the papers like you used to see. To think that last week Interlake made the huge announcement about the new fuels for their ships. Tough times for Interlake especially with last year's grounding of the Paul R. Tregurtha. Hopefully things will get better for them this year. One last note about the shipping in the papers, years ago you used to have Jack Story do articles for the Soo Evening News and also there were articles in the Port Huron Times Herald by Skip Gillham.

[quote="Guest"]I don't know if you can relate the situations or not together but, is this incident sort of similar to the Windoc at the Welland Canal back in 2001? Fortunately the circumstances were much better on this accident than they were for the Windoc. However though, if you think about it the Jackson had a bridge come down and hit her and the Windoc also had a bridge come down and hit her also.[/quote]

I think this reminds me more of the incident where the H. Lee White hit the Grosse Ile Toll Bridge back in the early 90's.

My wife (at the time) and I were heading to her family's home for a Sunday dinner. We normally crossed at the toll bridge. When we got there, the traffic was lined up for a freighter crossing, but the bridge wasn't even open. The White was coming but trying to stop. The tugs were doing everything they could to stop her... it was clear from our vantage point as we watched. The White eventually hit a span that wasn't part of the channel... not sure if that was because of the tugs trying to stop her or what. Anyway, it ended up being an issue of the bridge operators not opening the bridge in a timely manner, and if I remember right, there was an issue about the bridge operators being intoxicated at the time.

This incident with the Herbert C. Jackson reminds me more of the Grosse Ile toll bridge incident than it reminds me of the Windoc. Just saying and a $0.02.

****

As an aside, if you read the articles on-line in the Free press and the Detroit News, there is no mention that the Jackson is one of the last vessels built at the Great Lakes Engineering Works. Also, no mention of this by those who are commenting on those articles. Personally, I find that a sad commentary given the nature of the press lately on how much positive Detroit history they seek to report. The Jackson is a part of Detroit's history and it seems like that has been overlooked in the articles initially offered by the two primary papers in Detroit.

Minor damage to the Herbert C Jackson. Bridge operator at fault. Crews trying to figure out how to lift the bridge to maintain boat traffic. Vehicle traffic halted indefinately.

[quote="jsbrown"]The Windoc. Is that the video I've seen on youtube where the bridge comes down and knocks the bridge and smokestack off and it caught on fire? If that's the one, the video I saw is set to song "sailing home".[/quote]

That's it.

The Windoc. Is that the video I've seen on youtube where the bridge comes down and knocks the bridge and smokestack off and it caught on fire? If that's the one, the video I saw is set to song "sailing home".

Double leaf bascule bridge. [i]Kaye E Barker[/i] is headed upriver in this photo from the Boatnerd archives:

[img]http://www.boatnerd.com/news/newsthumbs/images06/Barker-%286-15-06%29-C.jpg[/img]

I don't know if you can relate the situations or not together but, is this incident sort of similar to the Windoc at the Welland Canal back in 2001? Fortunately the circumstances were much better on this accident than they were for the Windoc. However though, if you think about it the Jackson had a bridge come down and hit her and the Windoc also had a bridge come down and hit her also.

thanks

Draw.

I was just reading about the Jackson hitting the Jefferson Street Bridge and was wondering is that a draw bridge or a lift bridge? Just curious.