Boatnerd Discussion Forum

I worked aboard 1 USS boat in the 70s that had no problem speeding through the Rivers - especially in the fog. The Skipper (who will remain anonymous) figured everyone else was at anchor, so he had the channels to himself. I'm sure we were in Lake Erie and the Brain Box was still giving Security Calls for far upriver.

Back in the 'old days', I was a sailor in the US Coast Guard stationed on the USCGC Acacia WLB-406 stationed in Port Huron. We tied up a ways down river from the bridge. Those ships would come out of the lake, pass the Portland Cement plant and swing to port to stay in the channel and I don't think too many of them paid much attention to any speed limits. I don't know how fast the current was but sometimes those lakers would almost suck us off the dock it seemed. Of course that was way back in the day of Cleveland Cliffs, Daniel J. Morrell and the North American, 1966.

Some boats have received pricey speeding tickets from Sarnia for exceeding the speed limits in the Detroit River based on the vessel's own AIS speed. Even though it was a passing situation.

That happens often here in the canals of the St Lawrence Seaway, in the canals its 7.0 knots in the channels depending how loaded you are its 10.0 knots loaded and 12.0 knots all depending on the drafts. AIS has really been a help to the controllers of the Seaway, if it is serious enough, a letter is sent to their file in regards to the infraction, the pilot , or the captain, if it is a vessel not requiring a pilot.

With the advent of AIS the Coast Guard can check your speed through their AIS receiver. As far as fines, 99% of the time when a vessel is speeding through the river it is just a simple overlook. The Coast Guard will usually make a call to the vessel on their radio and remind them about their speed.

However, some of the ocean vessels cannot follow the speed limit in the river systems because of the design of the vessel. Some slow speed diesel vessels have a difficult time maintaining steerage going that slow, that or they throw a massive wake that can cause more damage than just letting the ship speed through the river.

In the St Clair and Detroit Rivers the VTS is run by the Canadian Coast Guard, but don't think that the US Coast Guard isn't watching the ships go by.

In the St. Mary's River the VTS is run by the US Coast Guard and before AIS it was common for a ship to have it's times all laid out for the call in points in the St. Mary's river and downbound vessels would often go faster that the "posted" speed limit once they get past the locks and just fib about their location in the river. However, AIS put a stop to that becuase now they can look at you on a computer screen and tell where you are and how fast you are going.

A vessel will have some steering with any speed thru the water, all it needs is for water to pass over the rudder. It is all matter of relativity- what is the relative speed of the vessel to the water or to the land. You can also steer a vessel that has sternway with a bowthruster, even upriver! When you have sternway your bowthruster becomes your rudder.

Paul A wrote:A vessel needs to go at least two knots faster than the speed of the current to maintain helm control. At least that's how the inland rivers are navigated.

A vessel needs to go at least two knots faster than the speed of the current to maintain helm control. At least that's how the inland rivers are navigated.

From the Great Lakes Pilot, (Coast Piloy No. 6) -- (i) 12 statute miles per hour (10.4 knots) between Fort Gratiot Light and St. Clair Flats Canal Light 2;

While in Port Huron yesterday, I watched the Presque Isle pass Vantage Point going downbound. I was suprised how fast the vessel was going. I would imagine it would be hard to slow a ship down at the mouth of the St. Clair River because of the very strong current. I have heard of a few ships getting fined because they exceeded the speed limit in the river. Does that Coast Guard give ships time to slow down in the river before they start monitoring the speed? For example, downbound ships must be at or under the speed limit by the Black River or is it a rule that the ships have to slow down on Lake Huron, before entering the river?

Any input would be appreciated!