Fitzgerald

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Re: Fitzgerald

by guest » November 19, 2010, 4:33 pm

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:is there anyone that was on the anderson that night thats still around seems to me that i cant recall hearing any comments from any of them but i may have missed them thanks
There were other ships at anchor, available to search, but for their own reasons, chose not to. Please refer to my post on the Fitzgerald comment page for 11/06/00.

I am 62 years old now. Each year I am able, I go to Whitefish Pt. to ring the bell for Michael C. Armagost. If family or friends attend then I ring for someone else. My good friend rings for Capt. McSorley. I still have a hard time with this even though I lost no one close to me. This year was espicially tough as many Fitz family members and friends were in attendance. It always brings back a lot of hurtful memories. It is something for those of us that were involved, directly or indirectly will probably never forget. and we shouldn't. Someone has to remember that horrible night and the toll that it took. "But for the grace of God, and a Captain with discretion, there go I."
Thank you for ringing the bell for Michael Armagost when you are able to. I will never forget the night the Fritz went down. My parents were at school for conferences. My teacher at the time was a teacher my dad had who was also the uncle of Michael. My dad was also friends with Michael.
Thank you,

Re: Fitzgerald

by Guest » November 19, 2010, 2:05 pm

Having been on the lake that night I would add "and a good strong boat."

Re: Fitzgerald

by Guest » November 19, 2010, 12:46 pm

Guest wrote:is there anyone that was on the anderson that night thats still around seems to me that i cant recall hearing any comments from any of them but i may have missed them thanks
There were other ships at anchor, available to search, but for their own reasons, chose not to. Please refer to my post on the Fitzgerald comment page for 11/06/00.

I am 62 years old now. Each year I am able, I go to Whitefish Pt. to ring the bell for Michael C. Armagost. If family or friends attend then I ring for someone else. My good friend rings for Capt. McSorley. I still have a hard time with this even though I lost no one close to me. This year was espicially tough as many Fitz family members and friends were in attendance. It always brings back a lot of hurtful memories. It is something for those of us that were involved, directly or indirectly will probably never forget. and we shouldn't. Someone has to remember that horrible night and the toll that it took. "But for the grace of God, and a Captain with discretion, there go I."

Re: Fitzgerald

by GLMC » November 19, 2010, 9:18 am

I agree re: McSorley.
My feelings are the the Fitz was poorly constructed, poorly maintained, and unfortunately those 'cost-savings' doomed her and the crew.
Just my thoughts...

Re: Fitzgerald

by Guest » November 19, 2010, 7:39 am

I don't put much stock in Paquette's book. Capt. Don Ericson of the Ford believe it was unfair to put the blame of the loss on Capt. McSorley for negligence. The master of the Fitz had been sailing for many years, so he knew what he was doing.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Peter » November 18, 2010, 10:38 pm

Get all of your answers as to why the Fritz sank by reading the book by Capt. Dudley Paquette's book " The Night the Fritz Went Down". I find it interesting in this book that his testimony was never considered by the Coast Guard Board of Review. This book spells out all of the answers.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Norskellunge » November 14, 2010, 11:20 pm

I've always wondered:

What was the upbound vessel the Anderson warned the Fitz about passing to her west some 10 minutes before she sank?

Are all the conversation transcripts between the Fitz and AMA based on the memories of the AMA crewmembers? I assume these conversations had no way of being recorded real-time.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Guest » November 14, 2010, 5:55 pm

is there anyone that was on the anderson that night thats still around seems to me that i cant recall hearing any comments from any of them but i may have missed them thanks

Re: Fitzgerald

by Tyler » November 13, 2010, 2:24 pm

The William Clay Ford was stretched in 1979.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Alex » November 13, 2010, 2:19 pm

The Sykes was converted to a self-unloader in 1975 and the Anderson was lengthened 120 feet the same year. The Anderson received its self-unloading rig in 1982.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Russ » November 11, 2010, 10:42 pm

Raymond - The Armco was lengthened in 1974 but it wasn't converted to a self unloader until 1982. Also, according to the Steel Workers Local 5000 news letter, the Armco wasn't in Whitefish Bay when the Fitzgerald was lost. The Armco left the Soo sometime on 11/9 and crossed Lake Superior upbound during the evening of 11/9 and the morning of 11/10. She arrived at Silver Bay approximately 10 AM on 11/10 and had suffered some minor damage while passing through the developing storm.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Guest » November 11, 2010, 9:55 pm

The Anderson actually reached the safety of Whitefish Bay. It was the Coast Guard that asked them to turn around and go back out to search for the Fitz, which they did. What Capt Cooper and the crew of the Anderson did went beyond heroic. They recieved a commendation from the CG for their actions and I would imagine the plaque (which I've seen) hangs in the captain's office to this day.

go to this link to listen to Capt. Cooper talking to the Coast Guard the night of 11/10/75. This will leave you more than a little choked up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyaEDWf_dG8

Re: Fitzgerald

by Guest » November 11, 2010, 8:17 pm

For the Anderson to stay course to the location and the Ford to actually leave safe anchor leaves me a little chocked up and at a loss for words beyond Heroic. Thank you all for trying to explain this to a landlubber.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Raymond » November 11, 2010, 7:19 pm

Wasn't the Armco and the William Clay Ford also lengthend about
the same time as the Arthur M. Anderson & Wilfred Sykes were?
Also, the Armco and the Ford were both anchored in Whitefish Bay
during the Fitzgerald's storm but, only the Ford and the Anderson
went out into Lake Superior to search for survivors from the Fitz.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Russ » November 11, 2010, 7:05 pm

Just to add to the discussion, due to (unconfirmed) reports, the Fitzgerald had a structurally weak keel. In addition, the Fitzgerald lost hull integrity around 3:30 PM on 10 November 1975 and began shipping water faster than the ballast pumps could discharge. By comparison, both the Sykes and Anderson were converted to self unloaders in early 1975 and their decks were strapped to increase their strength. Also, the Blough was a relatively new boat having been in service for only a little more than a year. The FItzgerald was the structurally weakest boat and suffered critical damage during the storm. The other boats were recently strengthened before the storm and didn't suffer any damage during the storm. In addition, Captain Paquette (on the Sykes) and Captain Rolfson (on the Blough) displayed a little more discretion and were not caught in the open waters of eastern Lake Superior during the worst part of the storm.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Randy S » November 11, 2010, 2:52 pm

Why is The Fitz gone but the Anderson is still around? It could be any of a hundred reasons. Fitz hit bottom at Caribou Is, was hit by a rogue wave, lost steering and capsized, simply broke in two, etc etc? The sad fact is that we will probably never know for sure.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Guest » November 11, 2010, 2:48 pm

Guest wrote:As stated, the others on the lake were not damaged or taking on water. Under those severe weather conditions I assume then most ships of that size or larger (now) will be fine but scary. Today with the 1000 footers and a storm like this; would they sail as scheduled or hold up in a safe area? I was 13 when this happened and I remember my dad and I watching the news.
We got the answer 2 weeks ago in a similar storm. Virtually every boat went to anchor on Lakes Superior, Huron and Michigan including the bay of Green Bay.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Mike- St Catharines » November 11, 2010, 10:33 am

It was widely known that the Fitz had structural issues near the keel amidships.
She had plates repaired there prior to the sinking.More than once depending on who you believe.
The area that was gone or the most damaged after the sinking after the surveys on the bottom was the area where the repairs had been done earlier.
The weight of water entering thru any loose plates broken vents etc may have been too much for her.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Guest » November 11, 2010, 7:33 am

As stated, the others on the lake were not damaged or taking on water. Under those severe weather conditions I assume then most ships of that size or larger (now) will be fine but scary. Today with the 1000 footers and a storm like this; would they sail as scheduled or hold up in a safe area? I was 13 when this happened and I remember my dad and I watching the news.

Re: Fitzgerald

by Guest » November 10, 2010, 9:33 pm

Because neither it not the other boats on Lake Superior that night were taking on water and losing buoyancy, which is believed what was happening to the Fitz. Here is a link to an article with the prevailing theories as to why the Fitz went down.

http://www.lakesuperior.com/online/225/225fitz.html#why

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