Boatnerd Discussion Forum

Guest wrote: August 29, 2026, 6:36 am I've read that telescoping hatches allow completely filling the holds with cargo since no deck space is needed to stack one-piece removable hatch covers. If a boat is dedicated to hauling dense iron ore, fewer hatches will work.

While this is technically true I sailed on many ships with solid covers and hatch crane. We were always able to reach max capacity no matter the cargo.safer faster more productive.if it was such a game changer why were they abandoned on the 70s new builds and many older boats converted.it was just a design ASC liked 🤷

I've read that telescoping hatches allow completely filling the holds with cargo since no deck space is needed to stack one-piece removable hatch covers. If a boat is dedicated to hauling dense iron ore, fewer hatches will work.

My guess is being built in the same shipyard plus construction cost.ASC wanted to save$. Lots of seaman available at that time and wages were relatively low so labor cost wasnt a concern.🤷.only mgt of that time knew why. I can tell you they are a labor intensive and much more dangerous design. Hated them😂.

I always wondered why these ships (along with the Adam E. Cornelius) were built in the 1950s with telescoping hatch covers, especially since all of the previous batches of US lakers constructed beginning in the late 1930s: the Miller Class, the Super Class, and Maritime Class, all had single piece hatch covers with this design trend going back to the building of the William C. Atwater in 1925. The introduction of single piece hatch covers marked a significant leap in efficiency by reducing the amount of labor involved in opening and closing the hatches and improved safety with superior watertightness during times of inclement weather in comparison to the installation of tarpaulins on the telescoping hatches.

Since the Boland, Munson, and Detroit Edison were originally built primarily for the aggregate and coal trades were they equipped with telescoping hatch covers to facilitate the loading at such places as Rogers City and Toledo? Was there some characteristic with these types of loading docks of the 1950s that allowed ships with such hatches to be loaded quicker than ones with single piece hatch covers? Did this have something to do with the spacing of the hatches, with the single piece hatch cover design requiring deck space to store the covers after removal from the coamings?

Is there any connection as to all of these vessels (including the Adam E. Cornelius) having been built by Manitowoc Shipbuilding? Were they the last to ever be built for Great Lakes service with telescoping hatches? I believe that the H. Lee White (Later renamed Sharon) was also fitted with telescoping hatch covers when converted from a saltwater tanker for American Steamship in 1957.

It seems strange that the Saginaw was never rebuilt with single piece hatch covers, but I'm assuming that this has always been affected in some way by the extended periods that ship spent idle between the 1980s and early 2000s due to economic conditions. Perhaps at some point in the ship's expected lifespan the cost of such a conversion exceeded the expected savings in labor costs over its remaining economic life.

"Correction: Brandon Falkowski’s Shipwatcher News/Great Lakes Ship Histories page lists both Boland {3} and Munson {2} as being built as coal-fired, with later conversion to fuel-oil burning in the 1970s. Those pages do list the ships’ original propulsion as significantly different, however: as-built, Munson is listed as powered by two GE steam turbines, while Boland as-built is listed as powered by a single large DeLaval steam turbine."

Just to add some information from a book I have by Eric Hirsimaki called, "The Lakers - 1950-1959". It shows the John J. Boland as oil fired, with a 2-cylinder steam turbine by DeLaval Steam Turbine Company, and two Foster-Wheeler water tube boilers.

The Detroit Edison from 1955 is listed as coal fired in Eric's book, with the exact same steam turbine and water tube boilers.

Adam E. Cornelius, built in 1959, is also listed with the same steam turbine and water tube boilers as the John J. Boland and Detroit Edison. The Cornelius was coal fired.

It was mentioned in the February 1970 issue of The Scanner that the John J. Boland, Detroit Edison and Adam E. Cornelius were at American Shipbuilding in Lorain, Ohio being converted to automated boiler controls with a conversion to oil.

https://www.maritimehistoryofthegreatla ... sp?ID=c003

John G. Munson received its oil conversion over the Winter of 1975-76 while it was at Fraser Shipyard being lengthened, and its deck rebuilt with one-piece hatch-covers. The Munson only had one 2-cylinder steam turbine.

1703h EDT Monday August 24/26
Saginaw is on the lake….its also 4 months til Christmas Eve!
As I reported just after 1500h she was heading downriver.. Just checked our ais as of 1700h she’s just a few miles above the bridges in L Huron. Clicked her icon….no ais info. Weird, but what isn’t. these days! Safe passage to all aboard!

1507h EDT. Mon. August 24/26
Saginaw is out on the river just moments ago. Heading south. Likely going to take on bunkers for the run up to Duluth-Superior.

deep sea mariner wrote: August 23, 2026, 9:00 pm

Darryl1 wrote: August 23, 2026, 12:26 pm Is the Saginaw a sistership to the MV John Munson?

The term “sister ship” is broadly understood to identify 2 or more ships that are identical to each other, built from the same blueprints.

A few of the major or readily-identified differences between the two:

4. I’m not 100% certain about this one, but photographs available online may indicate that John J. Boland {3} was built as an oil-burning ship from the start, while early photographs of John G. Munson {2} depict it with coal fuel bunkers/bins aft of its smokestack. The difference between an as-built oil-fueled system and an as-built coal-burning system would make for significant structural and layout differences in the ship’s aft-end accommodations & machinery spaces.

Correction: Brandon Falkowski’s Shipwatcher News/Great Lakes Ship Histories page lists both Boland {3} and Munson {2} as being built as coal-fired, with later conversion to fuel-oil burning in the 1970s. Those pages do list the ships’ original propulsion as significantly different, however: as-built, Munson is listed as powered by two GE steam turbines, while Boland as-built is listed as powered by a single large DeLaval steam turbine.

In adding more comments and information from my first and previous post from earlier this morning, the Saginaw backed down from the North Slip in Sarnia and went to the Imperial Oil Fuel Dock in Sarnia to fuel. From there, they are expected to arrive in Superior, Wisconsin to load ore pellets at the BNSF #5 Dock arriving on the 26th of August in the afternoon where they will load ore pellets for Hamilton then. Hope my information has helped as far as anytime that is tracking her goes here.

As of 11:15 AM EDT on August 24th, the Saginaw is now officially underway from the North Slip in Sarnia now where they’ve been in lay up all year. They are now backing down as I type this now from the North Slip in Sarnia on the Port Huron web camera. I don’t know if they will make a fuel stop in Sarnia or if they are going and leaving straight out of the North Slip? I would send this information today to the News Page and their editors however, I have an appointment this afternoon and will not be able to send in this information before they do the News Stories and the Port Reports by this evening! I’m hoping that maybe if they do have a story on the Saginaw departing from Sarnia, that somehow I’m given some sort of credit for my information and story. Hope that my information has helped anyone out here as far as tracking her goes. So, get ready Duluth-Superior boatnerds as the Saginaw is now out and soon will be “knocking on your door and be in your neighborhood!”

Darryl1 wrote: August 23, 2026, 12:26 pm Is the Saginaw a sistership to the MV John Munson?

The term “sister ship” is broadly understood to identify 2 or more ships that are identical to each other, built from the same blueprints.

John G. Munson {2} and Saginaw (ex-John J. Boland {3}) were, as Denny mentions, built by the same shipyard, and the two ships entered service roughly one year apart from each other, but their designs differed from each other in some significant ways, and the ships were never identical.

A few of the major or readily-identified differences between the two:
1. John G. Munson {2}, as built, was around 27’ longer overall than John J. Boland {3}.
2. John J. Boland {3}’s wheelhouse extended further out along the beam or width of the ship than the Munson’s; the Boland’s wheelhouse appears to have included a manner of enclosed wing control stations from the start, while the Munson’s wheelhouse was more the traditional square shape, with external/outdoor wing control stations.
3. John J. Boland {3}’s self unloading boom embodies a slightly different truss structure than that of the Munson {2}, and the two ships’ unloading boom bucket elevator/A-frame support structures are quite different from each other.
4. I’m not 100% certain about this one, but photographs available online may indicate that John J. Boland {3} was built as an oil-burning ship from the start, while early photographs of John G. Munson {2} depict it with coal fuel bunkers/bins aft of its smokestack. The difference between an as-built oil-fueled system and an as-built coal-burning system would make for significant structural and layout differences in the ship’s aft-end accommodations & machinery spaces.

Wasn't the the long departed Detroit Edison much closer to a sister ship of the Saginaw (nee John J. Boland) than the Munson?

To answer questions posted by both Darryl1 along with Steamboater66. First, I’ll begin with question from Darryl1 regarding “Is the Saginaw a sister ship to the Munson?” I don’t know the entire details but I would say Yes. My reasons if they’re correct is both have triple decks forward and both were built then in Manitowoc, Wisconsin at the Shipyard that was once there. While the Munson was lengthened in the 1970s I think to its present length which is 768 feet long, originally she was built just under 700 feet in length in 1952. I hope I have the correct year build on the Munson as far as 1952? Saginaw was built a year later in 1953 and basically has the same type of unloading equipment from the day she was launched I would assume? I’m not up on basics as far as details go for sister ships but I’d say at least that they are very close to being sister ships though in my opinion anyway. Now, to answer the question and comments posted by Steamboater66 about the Saginaw still in Sarnia as of the 23rd. IF she is due into Superior in the afternoon of the 26th, then I’d say they should be leaving from Sarnia sometime then on the 24th? This IMO anyway makes perfect sense when you think about it! Since they may be due into Superior on the 26, that would mean that they would leave Sarnia on the 24th and be at the Soo Locks on the 25th in order to arrive in Superior on the 26th from the Harbor Lookout website and schedule. Makes perfect sense to me then!

Is the Saginaw a sistership to the MV John Munson?

1255h EDT. Sunday, Aug.23/26
Am a follower of the Lower Lakes boats….especially the traditional classics like Saginaw and now departed Cuyahoga.
Saw Denny’s comment re Saginaw to Duluth for the 26th…
Sunday noon ais shows her still moored Sarnia…???

Heads up to all Duluth boat watchers and boatnerds. From information I’m seeing on the Ship Schedule from Harbor Lookout in Duluth, the Saginaw is expected to arrive in Superior on August 26 in the afternoon I believe it says to load ore pellets at the BNSF #5 Ore Dock for Hamilton. This will be her first trip and load for the 2026 Shipping Season after being laid up in Sarnia all year so far. It will also be her first trip under her new owners Algoma Central Corporation along with her new stack colors and logos representing Algoma as well. I think with a little bit of paint as far as “Algoma Blue” she along with fleet mates Kaministiqua along with the Robert S. Pierson all would look sharpe and great then. Hopefully maybe then this Winter, some of them will get painted in the Algoma Blue hull colors then.