Sailing on the Lakes

[Guest04]

Canadian contracts, not US. Our mates have 'straight time' for the 1st 8 hours Monday to Friday, then 1st 8 Saturday and Sunday are time and a half. OT M-F is time and a half, OT Sat-Sun is double time. Holidays are 2.5x regular rate for all hours worked.

Just for clafification, is it U.S. or Canadian officers that receive time-and-a-half OT?

[Paddy]

You are forgetting the weekends? I believe Sat and Sun are all OT?

My understanding is pay isn't structured that way for officers. Officers are essentially paid a portion of a monthly salary for each day worked. Any time worked over 8 hours in a day is paid at their regular hourly equivalent (i.e. "day rate / 8 = hourly rate"), not the typical overtime rate of "1.5 X base rate" us land-lubbers receive.

Canadian contracts, not US. Our mates have 'straight time' for the 1st 8 hours Monday to Friday, then 1st 8 Saturday and Sunday are time and a half. OT M-F is time and a half, OT Sat-Sun is double time. Holidays are 2.5x regular rate for all hours worked.

[Guest04]

You are forgetting the weekends? I believe Sat and Sun are all OT?

My understanding is pay isn't structured that way for officers. Officers are essentially paid a portion of a monthly salary for each day worked. Any time worked over 8 hours in a day is paid at their regular hourly equivalent (i.e. "day rate / 8 = hourly rate"), not the typical overtime rate of "1.5 X base rate" us land-lubbers receive.

[Ryan]

Working on the lakes has gotten better over the years, but it can still be hard on families. My uncle sailed for a short period of time during the early 1950s and was planning to make a career of it until he came home at the end of one season and overheard his young daughter asking his wife: "When is that man going home?" That was the end of his sailing career. However, back in those days it was common for a sailor to leave in April only to return in November or December, so such conditions do not draw a direct parallel to current practices on the lakes.

Honestly, it's hard to maintain a sense of normalcy at home with anything other than an even time schedule. It's easy to get disconnected from your working 2-for-1, even if it's only 9-10 months of the year.

[Guest]

Working on the lakes has gotten better over the years, but it can still be hard on families. My uncle sailed for a short period of time during the early 1950s and was planning to make a career of it until he came home at the end of one season and overheard his young daughter asking his wife: "When is that man going home?" That was the end of his sailing career. However, back in those days it was common for a sailor to leave in April only to return in November or December, so such conditions do not draw a direct parallel to current practices on the lakes.

[Guest]

the 2 for 1 VS equal time does not matter really. In the gulf they are working year around equal time, so around 180 days. On the lakes it is 2 for 1, but you have the winter layup in there. usually ends up around 200 some odd days for a full season. Sure, thats a difference, but not the striking one one might think at first glance.

[Ryan]

I must say, $80,000 is really unimpressive for the amount of credentialing/licensing, specialized knowledge, and time away from home required to work as a third mate; especially when considering most Great Lakes companies work a 2-for-1 schedule. Thirds in the GOM can make upwards of $130,000 working an even time schedule.

[pcolachap]

Hello guest who thinks this site is a source of misinformation. I disagree, respectfully. In the 40's Dana Thomas Bowen wrote Lore of the Lakes, an excellent and accurate read. I think this site continues that "Lore" in a friendly and knowledgeable manner. Not everything is the Gospel truth. I've posted and been corrected by others, no problem. There have been "speculators" whose observations were less than respectful to master mariners or business executives, but I think the majority of us have a sense of good taste and fairness, not to mention a love of the lakers and sailors who make a living on them. All the best to you and all boatnerds on this site:) Mike
PS, and those who run it too!,

[Guest]

Really?--you know how much I made last summer--amazing. Nothing more to say--

[Guest]

No 3rd Mate is making $450-$500 a day on the Great Lakes, especially if you are not including OT. $15000 a month? Really. Union contracts are never open to non-union members. Closely guarded info. GLMA claims $10,000 a month... but their figure includes average OT and Vacation wages. My first full season as 3rd I grossed about 80,000 for a littler over 7 months work(220 days). Wages are higher now, but certainly not 15k a month for a 3rd.

I rarely post on here... usually a comment when the "highly knowledgable" spout some nonsense...but honestly... this message board has to be one of the biggest sources of misinformation on the net. So many "experts" claim they know the reason for some business move, or have inside info on wages or whatever. Consider 75% of it BS. You can throw my post in there if you want...

[Rustyrivet]

You are forgetting the weekends? I believe Sat and Sun are all OT?

[Guest]

That is for 8 hours per day. Overtime adds more.

Thanks for the information; I really appreciate it.

Out of curiosity, how much weekly OT would you typically work?

Usually about 6-8 hours per week. An extra mate is called out when making a dock, while loading, or at the Soo.

[bomba86]

That is for 8 hours per day. Overtime adds more.

Thanks for the information; I really appreciate it.

Out of curiosity, how much weekly OT would you typically work?

[Guest]

It is very difficult to get into the GLMA, like 1 in 10 who apply get accepted. I wish you good luck.

GLMA is not nearly that competitive.

[Guest]

Usually cadets sail on the ships during the summer, so you will get a taste of the sailing life. All new sailors seem to romanticize the job, its normal.
400-500 dollars a day for a 3rd mate sounds high. If I were you I'd check with the AMO(American Maritime Officers)union to get a more accurate pay scale.
It is very difficult to get into the GLMA, like 1 in 10 who apply get accepted. I wish you good luck.

$400-$500 per day for a third mate is not high--I made that much last summer...

[Guest]

I sailed relief 3rd mate last summer--US side--all companies are in the $450-$500/day range.

Is that for an 8 hour day?

That is for 8 hours per day. Overtime adds more.

[PDBLK25]

Before you sail for the first time (if you do decide to go to GLMA), you may benefit by looking back some pages to Captain Metz's thread entitled "The Cadet". Avoiding mistakes (with Captains, Officers, and other Crewmembers) will make your experience much more agreeable. And being in thee crew's "good graces" will make them more willing (Wanting) to help you learn as much as possible.

As one contributor said - if possible - you might want to get some experience as an Ordinary Seaman on a Laker. Even if the only position you can get is Porter; the experience will prove invaluable, and may make the Crew more hospitable.

[bomba86]

While the pay was good, don't think I would do it over again. When I received the family ultimatum to stay home or stay away, I hung the license up on my wall and stayed home. I talked with a captain who said "I go home and the kids don't listen to me. They just wait until I am gone again." You become a visitor in your own home.

I can certainly understand that perspective. My dad worked on Alaska's North Slope (oilfields) when I was a growing up. It was tough having him away for 3 week hitches, but I didn't love him any less -- I honestly think the time away from home was harder on him (and my mom) than my brother and I. Luckily I'm single with no children, so don't currently need to worry about such things. Worst case scenario my accounting degree opens lots of doors, i.e. management, consulting, or some other God-forsaken desk jockey existence.

[geysir]

$400 per day for a third mate seems in the ballpark. I made around that as a third mate with ocean-going companies. I imagine you will work a bit over 8 hours per day on the Great Lakes. On oceans, the norm is 12 hour days and all hands, including mates, called out for docking and undocking. Tankers are more labor intensive than other types. On container and research ships I have worked less than 12 hours per day.

While the pay was good, don't think I would do it over again. When I received the family ultimatum to stay home or stay away, I hung the license up on my wall and stayed home. I talked with a captain who said "I go home and the kids don't listen to me. They just wait until I am gone again." You become a visitor in your own home.

[bomba86]

The general public can't access to maritime union contracts, unfortunately.