American Fortitude Updates?

[Chris M]

Frontenac is a diesel. The last steamer on the Canadian side is the Algoma Montrealais which will soon be towed overseas

[Guest]

As the old company names fade into history so will go the old steamers and soon older diesels.

Along with the great reduction in ships since the early 1980s, it has been sad to witness a corresponding decline in the number of fleets remaining. Gone are fleets such as Bethlehem, Carryore, Cleveland Cliffs, Cleveland Tankers, Columbia (Oglebay Norton), Ford, Paterson, Misener, Quebec & Ontario, Westdale, Upper Lakes, Branch Lines, Imperial Oil, Cleveland Tankers, Erie Sand, National Steel, Nipigon Transport, S&E (Kinsman), Soo River, P&H Shipping, and many more. Today, the lakes trade is dominated by just a handful fleets. How any further long term decline in the demand for the movement of bulk materials will affect those remaining is yet to be seen.

[astz]

The lakes trade is in for a structural change as the traditional cargoes like coal and now iron ore continue to be reduced in volume. Soon there will only be sufficient freight to fill the new Chinese built ships on the Cdn side and the most efficient "clean" diesels on the US side. As the old company names fade into history so will go the old steamers and soon older diesels. Modern ITB units could compete with long haul trucking and bring breakbulk freight back to the lakes if dockside handling was mechanized sufficiently enough to integrate logistic networks but I see no sign of any out of the box thinking like this at ports on either side of the border. I'm afraid a long sad slow decline is in the cards.

[rob]

With the new ships coming from China, salties coming for conversions and the Frontenac on a short term charter what do they with an old steamer?
Plus thier customers are going south, with big declines in steel and coal cargos.
With the exception of currently operating american steam ships, old steamers will continue to go the scrap yards.

[Chris M]

Chances, gotta love auto correct

[Chris M]

The changes of LLT getting the Fortitude are about as good as the J.B. Ford being refitted for service. Sadly she IS heading for IMS for scrapping.

[Denny]

I would have to agree with guest1 and the comments that was said about the 140 day charter thing. It makes perfect sense to me as to why LLT would want the Frontenac for just a short amount of time with the new Manitoulin being built from China and then later this year sailing from China to North America. Also and I don't know if this could be done or not, if LLT got the Fortitude then why would they want to re-flag her Canadian when the Manitoulin a new Canadian river-class vessel will be arriving from China later on this year anyway? If LLT got the Fortitude, I can see her still being registered U.S. flag and possibly replacing an older LLT vessel of which I don't know. Personally, I think the Fortitude would look just fine and awesome in LLT gray. However, I am not getting my hopes up too high just yet. There have been far too many cases with rumors like these here. I will believe the rumors that LLT got the Fortitude though when I see it and pictures included as well.

[Lakerguy]

Just a thought. Obviously we are running on some serious rumors so far (although I wholeheartedly hope they are true!) But are far as a need in the LLT fleet. They have a couple former saltwater vessels (Tecumseh and Kaminisitqua) I've heard that the Tecumseh is in pretty rough shape. Perhaps the same is true about the Kam and the Fortitude might end up replacing her?

[guest2]

The MAK from the Comeaudoc was supposed to go into the Saginaw when she was re-powered. Did that happen or did the Saginaw get a new MAK and the engine from the Comeaudoc is still sitting around somewhere?

[guest1]

Well I can say that the Manistee is either out and about or going to be in a day or two (and according to a source they put quite a bit of money into her).

LLT also has the "new" ship coming from China at some point this season so that could be why the only 140 days on the charter.

I really hope the rumor that LLT got the Burton\Fortitude is true. I know that LLT did buy the MAK from the Comeaudoc.

[Guest]

Pure Speculation on my part, but has everyone forgotten about LLT chartering the MV. Frontenac. Why did they need a big ship for only part of the season? Surely not to replace the MV. Manistee if she couldn't come out. Is the Frontenac at LLT to fulfill a very short-term contract? This doesn't seem likely. So what large Canadian-Registered ship will take over for the Frontenac? Perhaps a Canadian-Registered American Fortitude? If not, maybe they are looking at larger Fleetmate, the Str. American Victory. Whatever happens it seems that something strange is going on.

Why not the Armco too? I agree something strange is going on, since the tug that was supposed to tow Courtney to her doom has completely failed to turn up. I really, sincerely hope that what you are suggesting, happens.

[ivan]

i heard a unconfirmed rumour that llt has bought the hull, will tow it to davie in quebec city take out the steam plant and replace it with the m.a.k. from the comeaudoc. apparently the m.a.k. is in storage somewhere near port dover/simcoe ont.

[pdblk25]

Pure Speculation on my part, but has everyone forgotten about LLT chartering the MV. Frontenac. Why did they need a big ship for only part of the season? Surely not to replace the MV. Manistee if she couldn't come out. Is the Frontenac at LLT to fulfill a very short-term contract? This doesn't seem likely. So what large Canadian-Registered ship will take over for the Frontenac? Perhaps a Canadian-Registered American Fortitude? If not, maybe they are looking at larger Fleetmate, the Str. American Victory. Whatever happens it seems that something strange is going on.

[Shipwatcher1]

If the scrapper turns out to be IMS, a possible return resale to LLT would not happen. IMS primarily scraps lakers, so they will not risk betraying potential customers.

[Guest]

If an 11th hour reprieve happens and she ended up there, she could help offset the loss of the Manistee someday and allow them to further defer plans to renovate the Steelton.

If LLT were able to obtain this ship (this is an assumption on our part) a lot would depend on whether it remained under the US flag. Would it be possible that any such transaction include a clause that the ship be reflagged Canadian to avoid it competing directly with ASC? Furthermore, with its larger size the American Fortitude may not be able to reach all of LLT's customers that are currently served by the Manistee if it were to remain under the US flag. As such, even it remained US flagged I don't see the acquisition of the Fortitude as direct replacement for the Manistee the condition of the latter does not warrant further investment. In the end, this is all speculation and it is very probable that the American Fortitude will meet its end in a Canadian scrapyard. As witnessed by the Algocen to J. W. Shelley transformation, however, stranger things have happened. The next few days (or weeks...or months) may prove interesting.

[Guest]

Even if her steam plant was wrecked, I doubt that would deter Lower Lakes Shipping if the price is right and the scrapper was willing to deal.

If she ended up there, repowering would've been in the cards anyways. In the wake of repowering other steam turbine installations of similar vintage (The Saginaw and Michipicoten), no reason to think that the Burton would've stayed a steamer for long.

All they'd be out is the ability to bring her out in 2015. And with the slump in business right now and the work that's hopefully underway to get the Manistee out and ready for another five seasons (She needs her survey, I believe), that may not even present an issue since it's not difficult to imagine them sitting on her until they need to replace lost capacity.

If an 11th hour reprieve happens and she ended up there, she could help offset the loss of the Manistee someday and allow them to further defer plans to renovate the Steelton.

[CNY guest]

Sorry to say that no tug has come to Oswego, not even the one with the new barges. No further info on what is to happen next. I doubt the Marine Museum will be open on a Monday, so no one would be available to look out the window and say what's going on.

[jehrer]

As far as I know the machinery wasn't totally disabled like the James Norris.

Someone around here claimed that wasn't true a while back. So is it or not? I still hold out hope that old Courtney can be saved as well.

[jzcleve]

I'm still not 100% convinced she is done - nothing can't be undone in this case, with a good attorney and some maneuvering of details. Particularly with scrap values down, more revenue may be made elsewhere. As far as I know the machinery wasn't totally disabled like the James Norris. I think I heard some powerplant parts were scavenged. Although I am under no delusions, particularly with slump in the steel industry, I will believe it when they start cutting.

[Middle rouge]

If it is Durochers Champion, that tug would seem a little light for an open lake tow with a large ship. She is twin screw, 65 feet, good horsepower for its size, but I think still light for the job as far as weight of the tug. Probably would be teaming up with another, I can't see solo.

Champion is taking Durochers new barges to Oswego for their first job, most likely.