Historical Perspective

[Jon Paul]

Thanks for sharing your memories garbear and mccollochd, that's the whole point of this thread!

[mccollochd]

I was just 18 and shipping out for the first time on the Wm G Mather in June 1967. Our first trip was up to Marquette and the crew was still talking about the Nordmeer and Morrell sinking previous Fall. We steamed past the Sylvania sunk at the dock and I started thinking "I thought these boats were pretty strong, but look at all these casualties .... what have I gotten myself in to?" Sure wish I had a camera that first year.

[garbear]

That Homer collision was like 2-3 days before the Clarke ran aground down bound on the Seaway near Clayton, NY with a load of corn from Toledo to Montreal. When I got home my parents had all the articles cut out of the Manistee and Detroit papers about the Homer accident.

[Jon Paul]

Bumps, Bruises and on the Bottom

[ML]

Thanks for posting the pic of the Affleck. My dad was at "the front window" in that shot.

[Al]

May be off the air for a few days, so some season openers in advance:

[mn brett]

Hi Mike,It;s good to see You were able to resize Your Pictures,when They get to small You can resize them bigger again buy going 125 or 150 to get them sized as needed. Good luck! mn brett

[pcolachap]

Ok, we are getting this. Comment on the back of photo: Carferrys on Lakefront across from Reiss coal dock. Watching on Otto Reiss.
Best regards, Mike

[pcolachap]

Pictures from the truly good old days. Manitowoc, 1936 dad watching on the Otto Reiss.
Ashtabula, 1959 George M. Humphrey entering the harbor late July after her first Seaway trip. Two coal docks and the PY&A ore dock in the main river. Finally, .. Mike

[Ray]

Is there anything out there on how the Alexander McDougall handled with a conventional bow compared to other whalebacks? Obviously wasn't repeated, but if I recall correctly the McDougall was also the last one built.

[Al]

First boats out of Duluth on March 30, 1966. Lots of ice. They apparently needed icebreaker assistance to clear the harbor.

[Guest]

One of my favorite press photos from my childhood that I cut from the Port Huron Times Herald when I was around 6 years old. Sorry about the quality of the image as the clipping spent a number of years taped to my wall during the mid-1970s.

[Al]

March 28, 1966

[Jared]

If the decks were constantly awash and by the look of the design, it seems to me that the stern cabins must have had some water issues or they were sealed correctly. Where they leaky ships?

[William Lafferty]

What was the purpose of the Southpark's detached pilot house? I.E. why wasn't it part of the aft superstructure?

The area between the pilothouse and the aft cabins comprised hatches for filling the vessel's coal bunker. From the Duluth News Tribune, 26 April 1896:

"A difference is notable in the finished appearance of the Rockefeller from that of other whaleback steamers, owing to the fact that the pilothouse is entirely separated from the main cabins, the intervening space of 34 feet occupied by coaling hatches, this arrangement making her second to no vessel on the lakes regarding coaling facilities."

Here is what her bunkers looked like when filled beyond the brim.

[Jon Paul]

What was the purpose of the Southpark's detached pilot house? I.E. why wasn't it part of the aft superstructure?

Here are a couple of the variations;
Frank Rockefeller had several hatches aft of the pilothouse. It later became the tanker Meteor
Alexander McDougall had a hatch forward of the pilothouse.

[Jon Paul]

What was the purpose of the Southpark's detached pilot house? I.E. why wasn't it part of the aft superstructure?

I'm not sure Rob. The original design by Alexander McDougall had round or oblong turrets mounted on the spar deck aft on top of which was mounted a deck that held the pilothouse and some accommodations and galley. The turrets were rounded because McDougall's idea was to welcome the seas aboard the rounded hull offering little resistance and less rolling in heavier weather. An old timer I talked to as a kid at Port Huron had worked a few of the pigboats and said that in waves only 5 feet high the boat was virtually awash.
As the whalebacks continued to be built McDougall morphed them into several variations on the original design. The John Erickson had its pilothouse just forward of amidships with 2 hatches between it and the turret on the bow. The Alexander McDougall, named after the designer was the only one to have an actual laker bow on it. It would not surprise me if the Southpark had a hatch or 2 aft of the pilothouse and forward of the aftcabins.
One ironic part of using whalebacks for car carriers was that the flat boxed in structure built on deck to accommodate the vehicles completely defeated the whole design concept of a rounded deck and welcoming the waves to wash over.

[Howie Wilcox]

When CSL package freighters brought cars to Sault Ste Marie, they would enter the Sault canal, rise up to the level of the deck and drive off the vehicles. I remember picking up a Dodge Truck back in 1960.

[Al]

March 27, 1991 - Mackinaw leading boats through the ice off Duluth. Paul Tregurtha, Kaye Barker and Stewart J. Cort in line, with George Stinson in the background.

[Rob]

What was the purpose of the Southpark's detached pilot house? I.E. why wasn't it part of the aft superstructure?