Rand Logistics Announcement

[also guest]

What is a skeleton crew?All Canadian ships must carry a full crew as per the Manning Certificate issued by Transport Canada as well as meeting the Manning Regulations of the International Maritime Organisation and the International Labour Organisation in order to operate the vessel in a safe condition.Lower Lakes Towing met these conditions.

[Guest]

Weren't these boats ran with skeleton crews?

[Denny]

This is a bit off subject here but, the Ojibway has departed from the lay-up berth and dock in Hamilton and are currently upbound and headed for the Welland Canal. Their AIS shows them heading to Windsor, Ontario on April 26 at 0900. I don't know though if this is to load or if they may be going to lay-up? At least so far it is good news that she may be out and sailing this year. Still sad to see the Manitoba going to scrap someday.

[Guest]

It's a shame things have gone the way they have. The truth is that anyone and everyone in a senior role with integrity has been forced out of LLT and GRN in the last 12 months (Bravener, Bravener, Siddall, Vary, Rohn, Wiltse, Barber, McHugh and the list goes on...) and have been replaced by yes-men and incompetents. Trust between the sailors and the upper management is destroyed and will never be repaired. Just as important, the trust between the customers and the upper management is so strained that even in good times, the business would struggle.
The company has had a good run and for 20 years was cemented on the reputations and good will of its founders. From the ashes of the horrific customer service practiced by CSL and Algoma towards their Aggregate Customers, LLT was born. The relationships that were carefully formed and cultivated by Bravener, Siddall et al. sustained the company in lean times.
Unfortunately, the company is only as good as its people and in this case, Lower Lakes Towing and Grand River Navigation have become a pack of lions led by donkeys who seem to have completed the destruction of Essex Crane Rental Corp and have set their sites on destroying these companies as well.
The fact of the matter is that likely justice will prevail in this case when the shareholders open their eyes and hold the board of directors accountable for their negligence time and time again.
The only concern is will it be too late to save all those careers that the sailors and ousted management have fought so hard to attain.

[William Lafferty]

At least Captain Bravener has a pretty good separation package, according to this contract. As long as Rand has the cash to pay it, that is. If Rand defaults on its payments to him (and everyone else to whom it owes money), I wonder if the two-year non-compete provision remains enforceable, although I suppose the bankruptcy or liquidation referee would have final say.

[Angie]

If they left to pursue other ventures[pushed out] I wonder what sort a non compete agreement etc might be in place if any. With there inside knowledge of the contracts etc...

The link below is Mr. Bravener’s former employment contract with LLT.
https://www.lawinsider.com/contracts/27 ... 2014-07-08

Section 9.5 contains a pretty stringent non-compete agreement:

“The Executive further agrees that during his employment and for a period of 24 months after termination of his employment for any reason, the Executive will not in any way be associated with or involved, directly or indirectly with, serve as an employee, officer, director, or in any advisory capacity with, either individually or in partnership or jointly or in conjunction with, any person, firm, trust, partnership, association, syndicate or company, as principal, agent, shareholder, trustee or in any other manner whatsoever otherwise carry on or be engaged in or be concerned with, or start up or create, any person, firm, corporation or other entity within Canada or the United States engaged in the marine transportation business on the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence Seaway, except as a shareholder holding less than 5% of the outstanding shares of any such corporation whose shares are listed and posted for trading on a recognized stock exchange.”

Accordingly, Mr. Bravener will not be engaging in any new venture(s) in the marine transportation industry on the Great Lakes, starting any new fleet, or buying the LLT/GRN vessels back for a period of two years, unless he wants to get sued. I suspect Mr. Siddal’s contract had a similar clause. These things are pretty standard.

Moreover, given the way these things work, neither Siddal nor Bravener will be allowed to buy the fleet back. The only way that would happen is if a bankruptcy trustee, who doesn’t care about prior allegiances, sells the fleet back to them in the event of Rand going bankrupt.

[toledoboatphotographer]

If and it is a big if for the Rand Corp. to go bankrupt. With Capt Bravener's new venture he could basically buy back the Lower Lakes Fleet vessels and form his own fleet again.

[Denny]

An earlier post suggested on some of the LLT/GRN vessels "If they were to end up by going under, who would want some of their boats?" This brings up a good and strong point here! Let's first take a look at the LLT fleet and start with the Cuyahoga which has been for the most part kept up good by LLT since it was their first ship and freighter at least. I agree also that having her carry lots of salt may be a concern among some of the other companies. Then you have the Saginaw and the Michipicoten both built in the 1950s and former steamers now both diesels. This poses a good point as to what fleet if any could use and want them? Both Interlake and GLF have all the ships they need and Interlake has re-powered all of their steamers other than the Sherwin. I don't see any other firms wanting these two ships mainly ACC or CSL unless I am wrong? The Kam and Tec could wind up with either ACC or CSL but, both firms have built new ships from China with more from ACC coming in the future. Then you have the Pierson and the GRN sisters the Calumet and the Manitowoc. I could see the Pierson maybe going to Algoma due to its small size and ability to get into tight rivers. She could carry lots of salt as well in place of the Algoway and Algorail and yes I know already that ACC has new ships that will replace them soon anyway. I can't see the Calumet or Manitowoc ending up with ASC as they already have three river-class ships, while GLF already has the Great Republic. So, where does this leave the Manitowoc and the Calumet to go? Hate to say it but maybe scrap someday as a guess. I agree that the barges should be safe and here to stay for awhile at least along with Manitoulin.

[Buddy]

The Kam is a good carrier but has some issues. The Tec, while older, is in much better shape. Don't be fooled by her rough exterior. She was very well built & maintained while she was a salty. She should easily have a good 20 or more years on the lakes ahead of her.

[Laker mate]

Okay I am going out on the limb here and hope that I don't fall off of it LOL! My prediction is that if LLT/GRN goes under before years end or even in 2017, I can see this happening. First let's start off with the LLT part of their fleet. Let's say good bye to the Manitoba sorry to say along with the Ojibway and the Mississagi. Since the Ojibway and Mississagi are both in lay-up you can almost write those two off. Then you have the Kaministiqua and Tecumseh both of which are grain carriers for LLT. Their future is questionable due to their age. Let's not forget also that CSL sent the Birchglen to the scrap and the jury is still out on the Spruceglen and her future as well. If CSL gets rid of the Spruceglen, I can see the Kam following the parade of her sisters. Tecumseh was built in 1973 and is over 40 years old so age could be a factor here. Then you got the new Manitoulin which is safe but you got the Michipicoten and Saginaw both of which were repowered and now diesels and the smaller size Robert S. Pierson. I think the Pierson will be okay due to its small size and she can get into tight rivers. The Mich and Saginaw are hard to say on them? Moving on to the GRN part of their fleet, once again you have two river-classes the Calumet and Manitowoc which are safe plus they have the two Kuber barges which is hard to say but should be safe. The Manistee is basically finished here. So unless I missed some of their boats, I think most of their fleet will be scrapped with the river-classes remaining. Can the Pierson be re-flagged back to the U.S. with the Jones Act stuff or will she have to remain Canadian? Any information is appreciated. Thanks.

The Pierson (like any ship) could be flagged US, but she would not be Jones Act compliant. Once sold foreign the Jones Act compliance is over forever.

Personally, I doubt the US river boats would be bought by any existing fleet. They are not in good condition. The Kuber ATBs are the best rigs they have. Regardless of anything, should they go under I see the best chance for the survival of their vessels to be a new comer stepping in. ASC, Interlake or GLF I doubt would run their used up equipment.

[Shipwatcher1]

I think Ojibway would be safe. She was just dry docked this winter and has a modern engine in her. Cuyahoga would be a question for me because of the amount of salt she carries, and her repowering is 16 years old at this point.

[Guest]

All this talk has led me to think about how few fleets there are operating bulk freighters on the lakes. If you LLT/GRN were taken out the mix it would only leave Algoma and CSL on the Canadian side and ASC, GLF, Interlake, and the small CML fleet on the US side! This does not take into account the small number of cement carriers and tankers (both self-propelled and barges).

[Denny]

Okay I am going out on the limb here and hope that I don't fall off of it LOL! My prediction is that if LLT/GRN goes under before years end or even in 2017, I can see this happening. First let's start off with the LLT part of their fleet. Let's say good bye to the Manitoba sorry to say along with the Ojibway and the Mississagi. Since the Ojibway and Mississagi are both in lay-up you can almost write those two off. Then you have the Kaministiqua and Tecumseh both of which are grain carriers for LLT. Their future is questionable due to their age. Let's not forget also that CSL sent the Birchglen to the scrap and the jury is still out on the Spruceglen and her future as well. If CSL gets rid of the Spruceglen, I can see the Kam following the parade of her sisters. Tecumseh was built in 1973 and is over 40 years old so age could be a factor here. Then you got the new Manitoulin which is safe but you got the Michipicoten and Saginaw both of which were repowered and now diesels and the smaller size Robert S. Pierson. I think the Pierson will be okay due to its small size and she can get into tight rivers. The Mich and Saginaw are hard to say on them? Moving on to the GRN part of their fleet, once again you have two river-classes the Calumet and Manitowoc which are safe plus they have the two Kuber barges which is hard to say but should be safe. The Manistee is basically finished here. So unless I missed some of their boats, I think most of their fleet will be scrapped with the river-classes remaining. Can the Pierson be re-flagged back to the U.S. with the Jones Act stuff or will she have to remain Canadian? Any information is appreciated. Thanks.

[tarcticus]

This brings up the old topic of museum ships. Putting aside the near impossibility of funding it...the Ojibway (Hutchinson?) is the last boat from Bay City is it not? It should lay up there. One can dream...

[Guest]

As one earlier person had posted, "It almost sounds similar to what had happened a few years ago with Oglebay Norton and we all know and remember what became of their once and rich proud heritage in the Maritime Industry!" Another person had posted and I agree with their comments, they are predicting within 3-6 months that they could possibly be filing for bankruptcy. I am also giving my prediction that before years end, this company LLT/GRN will be just a distant memory and who knows what will become of the rest of their fleet and boats? I could see many of them being scrapped sometime next season. Sad as it is to see and say it, ones like the Mississagi maybe Ojibway will end up meeting the torches and also turned into razor blades sorry to say. I can see the modern ones such as the Pierson ending up with somebody since she is known as a "river-class vessel." With her small size, she would be very handy and useful for tight rivers and you know what I mean on that one! Others in their fleet such as the Cuyahoga, Saginaw and the Michipicoten all of which have had engine conversions, it will remain to be seen what happens to those if LLT/GRN goes out. Both the Kaministiqua and Tecumseh will be interesting as both are grain carriers mostly and the new Manitoulin is safe as a re-build.

Manitoba is probably beyond all worldly help. :( Pity she was the last best hope for incorporation into a future Canadian Great Lakes museum. Maybe some day someone will create a replica of her.

If LLT/GRN goes under I fear for the future of the remaining classics. Who will buy them? The Ojibway will probably follow Manitoba to the great port in the sky. I am not optimistic about the future of the others either.

Like you said the River Class and Kam, Tec and Manitoulin will probably find new roles.

[Darryl]

What the industry might need is Kinsman (Steinbrenner) to get back in the business with at least the Grand River vessels, and operate as an additional carrier on an "as needed basis" as they did for years. Trouble is they might be thinking the TPP trade agreement looms with a great deal of instability over the shipping / steel industry.

[Denny]

As one earlier person had posted, "It almost sounds similar to what had happened a few years ago with Oglebay Norton and we all know and remember what became of their once and rich proud heritage in the Maritime Industry!" Another person had posted and I agree with their comments, they are predicting within 3-6 months that they could possibly be filing for bankruptcy. I am also giving my prediction that before years end, this company LLT/GRN will be just a distant memory and who knows what will become of the rest of their fleet and boats? I could see many of them being scrapped sometime next season. Sad as it is to see and say it, ones like the Mississagi maybe Ojibway will end up meeting the torches and also turned into razor blades sorry to say. I can see the modern ones such as the Pierson ending up with somebody since she is known as a "river-class vessel." With her small size, she would be very handy and useful for tight rivers and you know what I mean on that one! Others in their fleet such as the Cuyahoga, Saginaw and the Michipicoten all of which have had engine conversions, it will remain to be seen what happens to those if LLT/GRN goes out. Both the Kaministiqua and Tecumseh will be interesting as both are grain carriers mostly and the new Manitoulin is safe as a re-build.

[Guest]

What the stock market thinks of Rand Logistics is reflected in their recent stock price, which is below a dollar. A few years back it was over $8.00 a share. I feel they have taken on too much debt, and with the economy seven years since the last recovery, it is only a matter of time before a recession hits. How will they then service their debt?

A previous poster mentioned Chapter 9, which is a U.S. term for liquidation of a company's assets. This is something I wouldn't want to speculate in. I wish the company well, but they do have some very rough seas ahead.

[Guest]

I understand that rand has lost loads and at least 6 ships are dry docked due to they can't get loads customers will not deal with them .After they dumped Jim they fired him and then Scott Andy frank all gone so customers now will not deal with the company. They spend more money now on dum things like wages 250 thousand a yr and up for all the top dogs ........
Has to stop will it hell no I feel in 3 to 6 month it be chapter 9 game over as lenders will close it down as they will not be able to pay. It's a dam shame. But it's what happens with people that don't know what they are doing.

[Tubby Tug]

Watch out!

Rand's new management is top heavy and knows nothing about Great Lakes sailing. Zero experience!!

The Board Chairman is dangerous. First CEO job @Michigan Limestone given to him by his father-in-law. He sold the Co. to Oglebay and made a HUGE personal profit. He then took Oglebay into bankruptcy.

BE CAREFUL!!