ASC Paint Jobs

[rpf13188]

Those ASC steamers are good boats, but they are the least efficient boats in the fleet and I doubt there will ever be enough cargo demand again to bring them out. Next year that new self-unloading barge -twin to the Great Lakes Trader - comes out, thats another 40,000 tons per trip carrying capacity coming on the lakes. Yes, I know thats a different fleet, but it just means another US flag laker competing for a piece of a pie that getting a little smaller.

That will be two years from now at the earliest.

[Jnorthup95]

The American Valor will definitely be the first ASC steamer to come out once the economy picks up again.Why would ASC paint the American Valor black if the had intentions of running it. It dosen't seem right that a company would invest money into painting a ship that they were not going to use. As for the other two steamers, the economy would have to be very strong for them to come out again sailing for ASC.

[bhale849]

I try not to say never when it comes to boats, but i would be stunned if any of those 3 ran again without being repowered or notched.

Why? Great Lakes Fleet runs the Steam AAA's Anderson, Clarke, and Callaway, while Interlake runs the AAA Str. Kaye Barker. These are all essentially identical to the Str. American Valor. CML runs the slightly older and smaller sister to the American Fortitude, the Str. Wilfred Sykes. I was all over the Str. American Victory (then ONCO's Middletown) in 2002, and she was in good shape. Interlake runs the slightly older, but essentially same-sized Str. Herbert C. Jackson and Great Lakes Fleet runs the slightly larger capacity, 8-year older Str. John G. Munson. Since the shipping businesses only operate ships that bring them profit, I assume that all these running ships are profitable. Those 3 ASC Steamers operated profitably prior to the late 2008 economic downturn. So why wouldn't ASC run those 3, when the economy improves, in their current state - as Steamers?

[lake sailor]

Buckeye was sold before ONCO had decided to sell all of their fleet. Reserve was sold, but ASC wasn't thrilled from what i understand. I've also been told they wanted to buy the 3 river boats as well, but could not due to some anti-trust thing. The remainder of the ONCO fleet was bought as a package deal. They were getting the Burton, Armco and Middletown no matter what if they wanted the Star, Norton and White. I try not to say never when it comes to boats, but i would be stunned if any of those 3 ran again without being repowered or notched.

[Richard]

Another reason to consider why the Canadian Miner is laid-up and
possibly heading for scrap is she has no bow thruster and needs
to have tug assistance in moving from one loading or unloading
berth to another one. Her ULS fleetmate Canadian Provider also
does not have a bow thruster and requires assistance in docking
as far as loading and unloading also.

[Guest]

Those ASC steamers are good boats, but they are the least efficient boats in the fleet and I doubt there will ever be enough cargo demand again to bring them out. Next year that new self-unloading barge -twin to the Great Lakes Trader - comes out, thats another 40,000 tons per trip carrying capacity coming on the lakes. Yes, I know thats a different fleet, but it just means another US flag laker competing for a piece of a pie that getting a little smaller.

[MichAlex]

Diesel trump steam? Doesn't seem to be the case in all fleets. The steamers in the USS Great Lakes Fleet get updates now and then on their boilers. The Wilfred Sykes and Herbert Jackson are sure on the move. Steam turbines are far more an efficient engine than diesels are. The issue is not the turbines, rather, the boilers of the 40s and 50s being compared to the latest diesel technology. It would be interesting to see the latest ideas available for producing steam since the generation of electricity depends heavily on steam turbines.

[Guest]

Will the Am. Fortitude or Victory even see service again?

I think the American Fortitude and the American Victory will see service again, but probably not this year. Both ships are self-unloaders, have lots of life left in them, and both were very busy before the recession in late 2008. Despite popular rumors, I think American Steamship bought those ships with the intent of running them, not just to keep them from competitors.

I couldn't agree more. If American Steamship wanted to keep ships from competitors, they would have also bought the Reserve and Buckeye.

[hausen]

Does diesel always trump steam? The example that comes to mind is ULS's Montrealais and Quebecois, both active steamers, while diesel powered sister Canadian Miner is inactive, and even slated to be scrapped.

There are two disadvantages held by the Canadian Miner (and many other similar ships) that sent them to the wall earlier than one might expect. If I understand correctly, many Canadian ships were built with engines that burnt actual diesel fuel and not the heavy fuel oil / bunker oil used by most of the successful marine diesels on the lakes. Diesel is a lot more expensive than bunker oil/heavy fuel oil, so ships with setups like the Canadian Miner, depending on overall fuel efficiency, are sometimes actually at a disadvantage compared to steamers that can burn cheaper fuel.

When it comes to the Canadian ships that trade out into the salt water of the Gulf of St. Lawrence, another reason newer ships have retired while the Montrealais and Quebecois continue sailing is the quality of hull construction, the thickness of the steel, and the quality of maintenance given to the vessels over the years. That salt water wreaks havoc on ships' ballast tanks and hull exteriors. 2010 is so far out from the 1960s-70s in terms of the expected life spans of these ships that by now one built fairly sturdily with a longer life span in mind and with good maintenance over the years can easily outlast a hull that's 10 years younger but was built more lightly and not maintained as well. 40+ years out, that kind of stuff is a much bigger factor than the difference between being constructed in 1962 and 1969.

[BoatBrad]

Does diesel always trump steam? The example that comes to mind is ULS's Montrealais and Quebecois, both active steamers, while diesel powered sister Canadian Miner is inactive, and even slated to be scrapped.

[Guest]

Also remember that ASC has 2 diesel vessels currently laid up for lack of business. The Cornelius and American Courage will most likely not move this year, so I would assume the steamers will be used again if business picks up.

[Richard]

American Fortitude also carried a few grain cargoes for a time also for ASC, and at 690 feet, she can get into some ports that her larger ASC fleetmates cannot. Something else to consider as to why ASC wanted her and also to continue keeping her on ASC's fleet roster etc. I would suppose.

[Michael White]

Will the Am. Fortitude or Victory even see service again?

I'm sure the American Fortitude and the American Victory will see service again, but probably not this year. Both ships are self-unloaders, have lots of life left in them, and both were very busy before the recession in late 2008. Despite popular rumors, I think American Steamship bought those ships with the intent of running them, not just to keep them from competitors.

How does their condition compare to the Interlake or Great Lakes Fleet Steamers? If they were converted to diesel power, would they be as effecient as ASC other smaller ships(like the H Lee White or American Mariner etc)

[bhale849]

Will the Am. Fortitude or Victory even see service again?

I think the American Fortitude and the American Victory will see service again, but probably not this year. Both ships are self-unloaders, have lots of life left in them, and both were very busy before the recession in late 2008. Despite popular rumors, I think American Steamship bought those ships with the intent of running them, not just to keep them from competitors.

[Guest]

It is highly unlikely the three ASC steamers will ever sail again. It would take a miracle of an economic recovery to get those three back to service. Unless ASC has a change of heart and would sell them to another fleet for future service.

[Guest]

How about the old ON-Co. boats? How long until they're painted? Will the Am. Fortitude or Victory even see service again?

[William Lafferty]

Both the *St. Clair* and *Indiana Harbor* received extensions on their surveys, the former to 31 January 2011, the latter to 26 March 2011. The *McCarthy* was issued a short-tern certificate by ABS which expires 15 March 2011.

[Charlie]

This is the current Information on the 3 boats:

MV St. Clair: IMO:7403990
USCG: 571875
Call Sign: WZA 4027
Doc's Expire: January 31st 2011

MV Walter J. McCarthy Jr.:
IMO: 7514684
USCG: 585852
Call Sign: WXU 3434
Doc's Expire: February 28th 2011

MV Indiana Harbor:
IMO: 7514701
USCG: 610401
Call Sign: WXN 3191
Doc's Expire: March 31st 2011

So all three will need 5 years at Bay Ship

Charlie

[Richard]

When will the following 3 vessels from the ASC fleet get and also receive their 5 year survey and possibly even new paint jobs?
St. Clair, Walter J. McCarthy Jr. and the Indiana Harbor. Each of
them look like they haven't been painted compared to other fleetmates in the ASC fleet.