M/V Michipicoten

[guest]

Yes the selfunloader that lower lakes acquired while bravener was still isnr exactly a new ship. The unloading gear and cargo holds are new but the stern if from a tanker, rebuilt in China. Are they going to transfer the cargo to another llt vessel pr sail her to algoma steel? Is think twice before I'd sign on her

[Guest]

I believe Superior was calm when she cracked her hull, correct?

If Superior had heavy seas this could have been another Fitzgerald type of disaster with the Michipicoten possibly listing right over then capsizing or even breaking up on the surface as she filled with water and further cracking the hull.

Drydock? Perhaps it's time for this old boat to head to the nearest scrap yard.

Why do ship owners hold on to old boats like the Valor and Sherwin?

[Guest]

Well isn't a restriction the same as a demand?

Single hull tank barges and tankers were eliminated by the ban on their operation after a set time point. Same with the burning of certain marine fuels.

The regulators are very aware that it was only luck that this crack occurred in calm seas.

If Algoma can buy new boats, why wouldn't (or shouldn't) the Canadian authorities expect the same from Rand?

Because they can't demand a company do such a thing, only restrict their current operations to the point where they either choose for newbuilds or leases or suffer a smaller fleet. Either way, Rand certainly does not seem like the organization to be spending money on anything above the essentials from the general appearance of their combined fleets.

[Mn bob]

I would imagine that if the michipicoton ends up in drydock that it will go to fraser shipyard in superior, I think that’s closer than sturgeon bay.

[badger]

Isn't the Manitoulin aewbulilt ship. Llt to thani Scott breavner for his foresight! The ctc is know be at srape

[Guest]

I would suggest they check out the hull of the Menominee while they're at it. Wasn't she one of the 3 Bethlehem SB triplets with the Johnstown (scrapped in 85), Sparrows Point/Buckeye (now Menominee) and the Hoyt? The Hoyt was idle for some time while the Sparrows Point/Buckeye was worked quite a bit. I would think she has a little more wear and tear than the Michipicoten.

[Guest]

If Algoma can buy new boats, why wouldn't (or shouldn't) the Canadian authorities expect the same from Rand?

Because they can't demand a company do such a thing, only restrict their current operations to the point where they either choose for newbuilds or leases or suffer a smaller fleet. Either way, Rand certainly does not seem like the organization to be spending money on anything above the essentials from the general appearance of their combined fleets.

[Guest]

If Algoma can buy new boats, why wouldn't (or shouldn't) the Canadian authorities expect the same from Rand?

WAG here but it's possible the cost to re-power a existing steam boat with a modern diesel in a Canadian or American shipyard is probably the same as a an entirely new Chinese bulker.

The cost of extensive steel renewals at a Canadian or US yard is not going to be cheap either.

[Geest]

You have to think that by this point somebody has to be kicking the tires on the Valo pretty hard, although who knows what condition she was laid up in and has sat for all these years. If she went in wet, there might not be an option for her that doesn't cost more than her service is worth when you tack on the repowering costs. Still, her owners may not have an option but to bring her out repowered. There simply aren't enough steam engineers anymore. Ugly spot to be in for sure.

[anoymous]

How about loading out of Two Harbors where they loaded for this trip... When Escanaba was operating, sometimes they could take on a lot of extra tonnage for that short run down Lake Michigan to the Harbor.

Darryl1 wrote: ↑June 10, 2024, 4:22 pm
With a 4 meter structural crack being reported as the damage, one has to wonder how deep the hull has been loaded for these runs just on Superior. Could it had been loaded down to 30 feet of draft...

Duluth-Superior harbor depths are generally 22-27 feet, so no 30 foot drafts there....

I have seen plenty of ships initially overloaded until ballasting is complete. Iron ore is loaded much quicker than the water is pumped out. The vessel could have initially been overloaded, touched bottom, and then pumped out and trimmed to her desired draft.

[Guest]

People should keep in mind the cycling the hulls of these older lakers are going through. Continuous loading and unloading, over a long lifetime can mean an accumulation of stress on the hull girder. There can come a point where the hull is stressed to a point that a hull fracture occurs, and that may be the case with the Michipicoten. Thankfully this didn't turn into a tragedy, but one has to wonder about the accumulated stress the older vessels have endured.

[Guest]

Didn't this same ship experience some type of hull cracking while upbound on Lake Huron as the Elton Hoyt 2nd in heavy weather during the 1980s?

Yes, the Elton Hoyt 2nd suffered a deck fracture in late December 1983 while on Lake Huron.

[Guest]

This is for Mr Bob. 2 strikes against the ss American valour. She's a steamer and she cant transit the seaway. Her next port of call is port colborne

You act like steam is a bad thing!! :) Admittedly, since I sail steam I am biased.

[Guest]

This is for Mr Bob. 2 strikes against the ss American valour. She's a steamer and she cant transit the seaway. Her next port of call is port colborne

The Michipicoten didn’t run the Seaway or the Welland… at least not very often. She spent the majority of her time on Superior and Huron. If the economics are there, the Valor can be repowered. They did it on the Michipicoten, they could do it on the Valor too.

[Guest]

Didn't this same ship experience some type of hull cracking while upbound on Lake Huron as the Elton Hoyt 2nd in heavy weather during the 1980s?

[guest]

This is for Mr Bob. 2 strikes against the ss American valour. She's a steamer and she cant transit the seaway. Her next port of call is port colborne

[Guest]

An even older vessel to replace this one?

May want to check your facts...

[Guest]

Not sure the market for running taconite to a mill that will soon have an EAF makes for a long term future. And the alternative of hauling limestone pays way less than ore.

Can you imagine the non-destructive testing the classification societies might implement to find fatigued steel? And how much steel might have to be replaced if the regulatory agencies get involved in a pre-emptive manner?

Especially since the Canadians can buy Chinese built boats?

[Capt B]

Any other place in the civilized world where they run 50 ,60 , or 70 year old ships in an area where the weather can be nasty eventhough it is fresh water ?...

[Mn bob]

American valor has been sitting since at least 2008 so she has a lot of life left in her!