Ships out of Long Term Layup

[Guest]

DTE reports that they received 5.6 million tonnes of coal last year from boat. See DTE's Superior Midwest Energy Terminal Website for historical data.
That is currently carried almost exclusively by 1,000 foot vessels. Once Belle River and Monroe plants close, those very efficient boats will be looking for other cargoes. Like iron ore.

[Denny]

The MERC or SMET Dock lineup is getting just a wee bit busy now with a few footers now making coal runs to the DTE Plant at St. Clair besides the Paul R. Tregurtha. Check it out for yourselves boatnerds! Notice a few things on the schedule? First off, the Wally Mac if you will is making a very rare trip to DTE at St. Clair on Saturday afternoon. Yeah I know she’s no stranger to that run except that lately, she’s been more dedicated in the ore trade than delivering coal. Also notice, the PRT taking a very rare straight load cargo for now at least anyway. If you watch a video on duluthharborcam.com right now back about July 8th the American Century and the PRT respective captains were talking. Point is at that time, the PRT captain said “Right now we’re running split loads to DTE all year long!” Apparently they must’ve changed something for now as they don’t take straight loads as often as they used to. We’ll see if that holds up or if it may change back to a split load!

[Guest]

American Century is unloading there today

[Guest]

In response to Badger’s comments, “If you were a shipper then would you want a cargo of iron ore pellets delivered by the Ryerson which could take days to unload or else have it unloaded by a self-unloader which takes only a few hours to unload?” If I was a shipper or customer etc. I suppose I would want a self-unloader since it takes only a few hours then to unload them. Afterall, isn’t there a Maritime saying “Time is money?” However, let us not forget that sometimes even self-unloaders can take a long time to unload depending on any issues they may face in the unloading or loading process. Take for instance if they are having any type of mechanical issues with the unloading process such as with the boom and conveyor belts itself or sticky or frozen cargo such as in the case of the Winter months for loading or unloading if the cargo is stuck and frozen or hard to load or unload at that point. I hope I’m making some sense somehow to you all with my comments on this topic.

Not to mention if the Ryerson offloads in Canada the Canadians still have the capabilities to handle straight deckers and are reasonably fast at it. Also, if you want a dedicated boat for your plant, it's not like you have to worry about the Ryerson having many other options. Whereas a self unloader can go just about anywhere.

[Guest]

I wasn't aware that ASC delivered coal to DTE in St Clair or was this a long time ago? No matter what, in the not to distant future that will be a thing of the past
[/quote

Actually the St. Clair power plant has already shut down. The coal dropped off there is for the Belle River Plant which is next door. DTE is currently building a natural gas power plant on the property. Once that is commissioned, Belle River shuts down and days of coal deliveries there are over.

[guest]

I wasn't aware that ASC delivered coal to DTE in St Clair or was this a long time ago? No matter what, in the not to distant future that will be a thing of the past

[Denny]

In response to Badger’s comments, “If you were a shipper then would you want a cargo of iron ore pellets delivered by the Ryerson which could take days to unload or else have it unloaded by a self-unloader which takes only a few hours to unload?” If I was a shipper or customer etc. I suppose I would want a self-unloader since it takes only a few hours then to unload them. Afterall, isn’t there a Maritime saying “Time is money?” However, let us not forget that sometimes even self-unloaders can take a long time to unload depending on any issues they may face in the unloading or loading process. Take for instance if they are having any type of mechanical issues with the unloading process such as with the boom and conveyor belts itself or sticky or frozen cargo such as in the case of the Winter months for loading or unloading if the cargo is stuck and frozen or hard to load or unload at that point. I hope I’m making some sense somehow to you all with my comments on this topic.

[Denny]

Well folks, just check the latest MERC or SMET schedule as the PRT and a few others are set up to deliver coal to the DTE Plants throughout the month of July. Yes, ASC has the American Century and Indiana Harbor both set up for loads and runs. However, look at the schedule closely and you’ll soon see in addition, the American Integrity along with the James R. Barker both are slated to load and deliver coal to the DTE plants. Although both are not regular coal haulers, both the Barker and American Integrity will sometimes take a load or two to the DTE plants along with the Mesabi Miner and Walter J. McCarthy Jr. if they’re respective companies if you will, choose and decide to use them in that trade and pattern. Hope all of this helps you out.

[Geest]

Interlake uses its footers to service DTE, as does ASC, though it seems both fleets use a primary vessel for that run with others filling in when/where needed. Once DTE has shifted those plants over to natural gas there will be less cargo for more footers to compete for, and I don't see any company which runs footers bringing out smaller tonnages when they can't fill their biggest earners.

[Guest]

Your post got me to thinking about the DTE runs. You are correct that only the PRT is dedicated to this run (although she has occasionally loaded iron ore). But that plant gets coal from several boats.

However - looking at the DTE Superior Midwest Energy Terminal Vessel Arrival Schedule from July 11th thru July 29th, 8 thousand footers are scheduled to load. The PRT for 3 of those. The JAMES R BARKER, MESABI MINER, INDIANA HARBOR, AMERICAN CENTURY, AMERICAN INTEGRITY each for one load apiece.

What will those boats be hauling when Belle River and Monroe close? There will be no more operating coal power plants on the Great Lakes serviced by water.

IIRC American Steamship (Rand) 1,000 footers also deliver coal to those plants.


SEVERAL? Only PRT is dedicated to coal.

[/quote]

[Guest]

IIRC American Steamship (Rand) 1,000 footers also deliver coal to those plants.


quote=Guest post_id=266178 time=1720474866]

Well once the mill at the Saulte closes it's blast furnace, then the demand curve continues down.

Then we wait for the closures of DTE's Belle River and Monroe power plants which could be much sooner than people think. That will further depress demand for water borne shipments. What makes those closures particularly bad is it will free up several 1,000 foot vessels which will in turn displace 2 or 3 smaller boats each which run to Chicago and Cleveland. We saw that movie when the footers first came out.

It would be a long shot.

SEVERAL? Only PRT is dedicated to coal.
[/quote]

[Guest Jon Paul]

Well once the mill at the Saulte closes it's blast furnace, then the demand curve continues down.

Then we wait for the closures of DTE's Belle River and Monroe power plants which could be much sooner than people think. That will further depress demand for water borne shipments. What makes those closures particularly bad is it will free up several 1,000 foot vessels which will in turn displace 2 or 3 smaller boats each which run to Chicago and Cleveland. We saw that movie when the footers first came out.

It would be a long shot.

SEVERAL? Only PRT is dedicated to coal.

Though not dedicated several of the ASC footers have been hauling coal to St Clair/Monroe including the Indiana Harbor this week and American Century currently on Lake Superior headed there.

[Guest]

With 10 loads being hauled yet for the rest of July (see loading schedule at SMET), the word several is a fair word. I would say three footers are used to haul coal for Detroit Edison during a normal shipping season. It will be a big blow when those plants close.

[badger]

In reality if you were a shipper of iron ore pellets would you want your shipment delivered by the ryerson which takes days to be unloaded { ie Lorain. Ohio} or by a self unloader which takes hours to discharge?

[Denny]

Very true about the PRT being dedicated to coal although, American Century makes its share of coal runs as well from the SMET Dock in Superior sometimes to the DTE Plants at both St. Clair and Monroe. Not often but sometimes you will see other footers delivering coal to the DTE Plant at St. Clair such as the Indiana Harbor, James R. Barker and also the Mesabi Miner. The Walter J. McCarthy Jr. now seems to be hauling more taconite pellets than coal however, that’s not to say in the very least that the Wally Mac can’t deliver a load of coal once in while to the DTE Plants it’s just not happening as often as it used to. Another footer that at times will deliver coal to the DTE Plants is the American Integrity.

[Guest]

Well once the mill at the Saulte closes it's blast furnace, then the demand curve continues down.

Then we wait for the closures of DTE's Belle River and Monroe power plants which could be much sooner than people think. That will further depress demand for water borne shipments. What makes those closures particularly bad is it will free up several 1,000 foot vessels which will in turn displace 2 or 3 smaller boats each which run to Chicago and Cleveland. We saw that movie when the footers first came out.

It would be a long shot.

SEVERAL? Only PRT is dedicated to coal.

[Guest]

Well once the mill at the Saulte closes it's blast furnace, then the demand curve continues down.

Then we wait for the closures of DTE's Belle River and Monroe power plants which could be much sooner than people think. That will further depress demand for water borne shipments. What makes those closures particularly bad is it will free up several 1,000 foot vessels which will in turn displace 2 or 3 smaller boats each which run to Chicago and Cleveland. We saw that movie when the footers first came out.

It would be a long shot.

With the fairly recent loss/damage of three vessels, the Roger Blough, the Cuyahoga, and the Michipicoten what are the odds of some vessels in long term layup being fitted out to take their place? My obvious thought would be the Cason J. Callaway but what about the Edward L. Ryerson and even possibly the John Sherwin. I know those are long shots but I'm thinking there must been a need for more capacity.

[Guest]

You won’t see that happening. First, the extra tonnage is not needed.2nd,those vessels aren’t owned by LLT/ GRAND and third,the Calloway is in bad shape,the Shirwin is a dead boat,and the ryerson has no place to fit in in todays shipping economics.

[msppilot]

With the fairly recent loss/damage of three vessels, the Roger Blough, the Cuyahoga, and the Michipicoten what are the odds of some vessels in long term layup being fitted out to take their place? My obvious thought would be the Cason J. Callaway but what about the Edward L. Ryerson and even possibly the John Sherwin. I know those are long shots but I'm thinking there must been a need for more capacity.