USS Enterprise Farewell

[Guest]

I know that only two of the four received boilers and turbines from the Kentucky. The 6th Iowa never progressed far enough to have all of her engine room machinery. But I was under the mistaken understanding that similar equipment was built for the other pair to keep commonality between all four class members. How different were they in the engine room compared to the other pair, then?

I'm sure current crew members weren't stolen off the Sacramento's as the Iowa's came back online, but numerous sources do state that these two vessels indirectly formed a valuable resource in getting the Iowa's going again since it helped provide resources that could be directly applied to the Iowa's 40 year old engine room spaces.

[AOE-2 Boiler Tech]

Only the main engines on the Sac and Camden were leftover battleship equipment. Iowa class BB's had "M" type boilers with two furnaces the Sac and Camden had single furnace "D" types with all auxiliary made for them. I was serving on Camden when the battleships were reactivated, none of us given orders (or wanted) to go to the uptight battleship world.

[Guest]

I don't doubt that the Enterprise had logistics issues due to her age and unique nature. But that still doesn't change the fact that she was designed with an eye towards a 50 year service life as have been all of America's super carriers. They weren't pushing her past what her designers had envisioned half a century ago by taking her up until now. She retired right on the schedule that has been in place for her since before her keel was even laid.

Too bad they seem dead set on scrapping her. I would think the final recycling cost (They would still have to defuel her, drain her systems, etc.) would be enough to keep the Enterprise safely docked as a museum ship with her nuclear systems safely sealed off as necessary from the public and routine drydockings for hull inspections and repairs for many decades to come. We should save at least one of these super carriers and the most obvious choice is slated to become an artificial reef (The Forrestal). And they're letting the next obvious selection as far as history goes, go to scrap with their plans for the Enterprise.

As for America, she went because her SLEP scheduled for the mid 1990's was cut due to budget cuts and her retirement date was accelerated from the early 2010's to the mid 1990's as a result. The Kennedy got nearly 40 years of service, was the most expensive carrier in the fleet, and was due for an expensive overhaul. That was cancelled also due to budget cutbacks so she went five years ago or so instead of the mid to late 2010's that had been the plan. They had condition issues as you stated but the biggest contributing factor to both of their early retirements were budgetary constraints that led to cancelled planned overhauls of them and accelerated their phase outs.

As I recall, the Iowa's utilized 600lb's of pressure in their boilers. Not even the boilers on the Lexington and Midway, WWII fast carriers still active in the fleet during the 1980's, were just like them even though they operated at similar pressures. So apparently the Sacramento class support ships were a very valuable asset since they utilized the same propulsion machinery as the Iowa's (And for two of them, their engine room machinery came from the 90% or so finished Iowa class ship Kentucky that was sold for scrap around 1960). That meant the Navy still had trained crews familiar with what was needed to safely operate and maintain the engine rooms of the Iowa's and a training regimen in place to keep them supplied with crews.

So that's something the Iowa's did have in their favor during their reactivation's in the 80's. Their engine rooms were well known to the Navy still thanks to those support vessels.

[Guest]

In many of the stories published about Enterprise, lack of spare parts was an oft-cited concern. There were many references to having to specially make parts to repair systems on the ship because no replacements were available. It was a sense of pride to keep the ship going under those circumstances, as apparently there was a motto "There's tough and then there's Enterprise tough." And as far as N/S Savannah, while the ship is technically preserved, public access to the ship, last I read, is limited to specific times and locations within the ship as the total cleaning process for that vessel isn't apparently fully completed.

[jrm1270]

At least 2 of the cold war carries were retired because of problems with thier hulls. The USS America was taken out of service well before her 50th year because she was, as a cost cutting measure built with high tensile steel. Thinner lighter hull plating.
The USS John F. Kennedy was also retired early not because of her age, but short cuts taken durning her construction and changes made to her from a nuclear boat to a fossil fuled boat. The Kennedy also had a history of poor maintance done for various other reason. At least 2 captains were relived of commad of her because the ship was in such poor shape.
As far as the steam systems on most of the post WW II carriers, most if not all had 850 pound systems with 850 degrees of super heat. The Navy in the mid 60's, did build several classes of destroyers and other ships that used 1200 pound steam systems. While the 1200 pound systems produced more power in a smaller space, they did have more problems than the 850 pound systems.

[Guest]

The USS Enterprise was designed with an eye towards a 50 year service life. Her system's, machinery, and hull were meant to last this long. They didn't stretch her beyond her designed limits.

Other super carriers retired early due to the end of the Cold War and budget constraints, not because they had reached their designed lifespan. Some of them didn't even reach 40 years of service and several never received their programmed mid-life overhauls or just received partial overhauls and upgrading.

There wasn't much support for many of the systems on board because all the other ships like them from their time were already gone. The technology was just obsolete.

One thing they had going for them during the 1980's was the incomplete USS Kentucky. Her boilers and turbines went into two supply ships in the 60's after she was scrapped unfinished. And they built similar boilers and turbines for another pair. By the 1980's, their lower pressure boilers were the last of their kind left in the Navy. The crews experienced on them formed the basis for the engineering crews as the Iowa's came back online during the 1980's and also meant that there were parts available and crews still employed at Naval dockyards with experience on them. I imagine the Lexington and the surviving Midway's were valuable assets to form a support group for the Iowa's as well.

The Iowa's primarily went due to cost. They were expensive ships that still had lots of life left in them and some valuable capabilities. But with the Cold War coming to end, the navy just couldn't afford such specialization. It's the same reason you see the Navy transitioning away from aircraft types tailored to do a specific mission as well as possible to multi-role types that can successfully take on multiple missions, albeit not quite as well as a purpose built aircraft could do. It saves on design cost, it saves on maintenance expenses, it's fewer unique parts to stock aboard ship, less training is involved, etc.

It can even be a valuable asset during a mission since you can quickly transition to another role in an emergency (Such as if you encounter an enemy aircraft on a bombing mission; a modern multi-role fighter doesn't even have to jettison its weapon load to engage in aerial combat). But it can also be a hindrance when you don't even have the same level of capabilities in an area like range as a 30 or 40 year old aircraft type that was replaced by the more modern multi-role aircraft (Let alone what a purpose built type could do today in an area like ground attack).

The naval aims for more general purpose ships that can tackle a wide variety of missions aimed at it. The Iowa's unique capability was all those 5" and 16" guns for naval gunfire support missions that could engage heavy targets miles away while absorbing any possible attack from shore based defenses. Everything else it could do like air defense capabilities and launching Tomahawk cruise missiles could be done with more modern and cheaper multi-role vessels.

They decided they just couldn't afford that investment with ships requiring thousands of sailors and with technology that was quickly aging and becoming unique in the navy just for those specialized gunfire support missions (Despite the vast majority of targets in many areas of concern for the Navy being in range of those 16" guns).

[Randy S]

[quote="Rob] She has been updated and refitted to keep her up to date with the latest electronics and weapons syetems etc..
Rob

Yep, as have the older Nimitz-class vessels. You would have a very limited service life if constant refits were not done.

As far as preservation, the NS Savannah has been saved, so it is possible.[/quote][/quote]

You have to remember that the Savannah's hull was only 12.5 years old when she last sailed. She also had just One reactor, the Big E has 4. In a nuke carrier, the reactor(s) are probably the most heavily protected things in them - there are layers upon layers of other spaces and compartments above and around them. A LOT of cutting will be required to get them out of the Big e

[torgy1962]

The Iowas had service lives far beyond what many would have imagined, particularly in comparison to the other "new" battleship, the HMS Vanguard.

[Jared]

The Iowa Class could be updated to carry rail guns if they were to ever perfect the technology. I always had a soft spot for the battleships though. Unfourtantly the technology is not available at the moment to keep up with the aircraft, missle, and submarine threat. The only way the battleship could even be effective is she was center of a large task force. There is even talk that the days of the super carriers are numbered because of this reason.

[wlbblw]

One reason that the battleships were retired in the early 90's was not because they were physically worn out - they had relatively low sea time - but that that they were just plain old and as a result- incredibly expensive to man & maintain. There wasn't much support for many of the systems on board because all the other ships like them from their time were already gone. The technology was just obsolete. Some of those sorts of problems were partly to blame for the over ram of the powder bags in the center gun & resulting explosion in Turret 2 on board the Iowa in 1989. Maintanance proceedures on some of the hydraulics in the ramming system were found to be an issue there due to clogged filters & sticky old oil.

[Guest]

Remember too that the hull is over 50 years old. Granted that the Navy does dry dock and inspect their ships every 2 years. The hull of the Enterprise has to be getting thin in places. And at what cost do you do major repairs? Also the Enterprise is the only vessel in her class so as other have said, spares do become hard to come by and they become more expensive. She's been around a long time. and she has done her job well. But at 51 years of age, she's well past her prime and with 8 reactors she's very expensive to run and maintain.
It's time for her to be retired.

[wlbblw]

Electronics & weapons are always updated, but that doesn't mean that the ship isn't worn out from so many years of service. Her systems & machinery were never ment to last this long & the crew was reporting having to fabricate certain parts for lack of spares in the last few years. When other ships of the fleet from the same time line as her were retired years ago, it leaves less & less support for parts, repair knowledge, & whatnot for any remaining ships that are still active & it then takes a lot more money & time to keep it maintained. I bet the engineering department threw a party when they finally shut her down for the last time.

[torgy1962]

[quote="Rob] She has been updated and refitted to keep her up to date with the latest electronics and weapons syetems etc..
Rob[/quote]

Yep, as have the older Nimitz-class vessels. You would have a very limited service life if constant refits were not done.

As far as preservation, the NS Savannah has been saved, so it is possible.

[Rob]

Such an incredible ship that will be missed.

She might be missed, but remember, that ship was operating on technology from 1954. How much has changed between then and now? Time for her to retire.

She has been updated and refitted to keep her up to date with the latest electronics and weapons syetems etc....

Rob

[Randy S]

Reports have already indicated that the CVN version of the Enterprise will have to be largely dismantled to deactivate the reactors and associated equipment. It will be a process that will take years. What remains will ultimately end up as scrap.

Agreed. Much of the ship was built around the reactors. Imagine putting an army tank on a piece of ground, then building a huge home around it - to get the tank out, you have to take the house apart.

[Guest]

Reports have already indicated that the CVN version of the Enterprise will have to be largely dismantled to deactivate the reactors and associated equipment. It will be a process that will take years. What remains will ultimately end up as scrap.

[Timerover51]

Such an incredible ship that will be missed.

She might be missed, but remember, that ship was operating on technology from 1954. How much has changed between then and now? Time for her to retire.

Given that she was regularly updated, aside from her reactors, she should be pretty much state of the art still when it comes to carrier operations.

Hopefully, some steps will be taken to preserve her, unlike the World War 2 carrier Enterprise, which went to the scrap yard, rather than becoming a museum ship.

[Guest]

Such an incredible ship that will be missed.

She might be missed, but remember, that ship was operating on technology from 1954. How much has changed between then and now? Time for her to retire.

[Randy S]

Three long and 2 short Big E

[Cody]

I haven't seen this posted anywhere, my apologies if it already has been.

The carrier USS Enterprise was taken out of active service on Saturday. More here: http://acn.liveauctioneers.com/index.ph ... ve-service

Such an incredible ship that will be missed.