Sister Ships

[BobG]

Hall Corporation/Halco sisters 1927-1978:

John H. Price, Walter B. Reynolds (ii), Mont Louis

Rockcliffe Hall (i), Coniscliffe Hall (i) Eaglescliffe Hall (i), Meadcliffe Hall, Westcliffe Hall (i) George L. Eaton (ii)

Leecliffe Hall (i), Northcliffe Hall (i) Southcliffe Hall, Sternecliffe Hall, Shiercliffe Hall

Frankcliffe Hall (i), Hutchcliffe Hall, Eastcliffe Hall

Westcliffe Hall (ii), Eaglescliffe Hall (ii)

Coniscliffe Hall (ii), Rockcliffe Hall (ii)

Lawrencecliffe Hall (ii), Beavercliffe Hall

Chemical Transport, Industrial Transport

Cartiercliffe Hall, Montcliffe Hall, Steelcliffe Hall

[Brent]

Bersimis - Pugwash
Walter B. Reynolds-Robert Kernan-Robert J. Buck

[Port Colborne]

Misener had 3 sister ships built in Glasgow Scotland
Canada Marquis now birchglen- Slekirk Settler now Spruceglen-Saskatewan Pioneer now Kaministiqua.

[TWilush]

As far as I'm concerned, a sister is a vessel that is not materially different from it's predecessors built along the same plans. Those Vickers boats with the exception of the Maplecliffe are all sisters in my mind, and compose a 'class' as a group. Just as Baie St. Paul and Frankcliffe Hall have only minor differences, you'd be hard pressed to convince me they didn't qualify as sisters.

Twins are identical, but sisters are close;even thinking in terms of people, twins are identical and sisters are similar but different in minor ways-twins are also sisters. Olympic and Titanic are considered sisters, but were by no means identical.

[benship1]

The Vickers vessels did differ as such J.N. Mc watters had 6 holds
Montrealer ,Quebecois had 5 holds a different hatch size and arrangement as well as an altered fwd cabin design.Don De Dieu also had 5 holds and an other different hatch arrangement and size as well as another fwd accommodarion arrangment.the hulls may be simular but my definition of sisters does not apply.A sister to me is an exact duplicate of the former ship built.The U.S. Liberty ship progran comes to mind.Builders and owners like to improve each new vessel incorporation changes to better each sucessive vessel.Patersons Kingdoc & Hamildoc are exact duplicates as well as the Mondoc and Lawrendoc.Prindoc and labradoc differed only in a modified engine room arrangement.a cooler was relocated.

[kpgubert]

Here's a few that haven't been mentioned:

Johnstown [3]
Michipicoten [2] (Elton Hoyt 2nd)
Lewis J. Kuber (Buckeye [3], Sparrows Point)

[BobG]

They were all 730s except for the France, which was 723' OA, I believe.

[TWilush]

the Algoma Montrealais and Algoma Qubecois I think are sisters but they are also very similar in appearence to the John A. France, J.N. McWatters and the V.W. Scully. Were all five of these ships built from the same plans? I know the France and the McWatters were a little shorter than the others but they were all steamers and all were built in the early 60´s.

Yes, all were built by Canadian Vickers, the diesel powered Maplecliffe Hall was built along the same plans, but with a different arrangement at the stern.

1960: John A. France (ii) [Algoriver]
1961: J.N. McWatters (ii) [Algogulf (ii)]
1961: Montrealais
1963: Quebecois
1965: Don-De-Dieu [V.W. Scully, Algosound]
1965: Maplecliffe Hall [Lemoyne (ii), Canadian Miner]

[jk]

the Algoma Montrealais and Algoma Qubecois I think are sisters but they are also very similar in appearence to the John A. France, J.N. McWatters and the V.W. Scully. Were all five of these ships built from the same plans? I know the France and the McWatters were a little shorter than the others but they were all steamers and all were built in the early 60´s.

[Guest]

While the Wlfred Sykes and American Fortitude may look like sisters, they actually are near sisters. They both have different water-tube boilers and different steam tubines. As a previous poster said, the American Fortitude's stern is different to reduce vibration, as the Wilfred Sykes had disturbed water flow around the propeller. The Fortitude has vertical access to the engine room, which the Sykes did not have. For more details see: "Inland Seas, Fall 1989, Volume 45. A Decade of Great Ships: 1948-58 by Walter C. Cowles."

You are quite correct in your comments. Being the forerunner of a new breed of ships, the Wilfred Sykes pioneered many features that were incorportated into subsequent designs. While many ships may be similar in appearance, their actual characteristics may be quite different. Much of this is influenced by tweaking a basic design to suit a particular customer's requirements, or making alterations into the design as it matures from actual service. The article you mentioned "A Decade of Great Ships" is, in my opinion, one of the best I have ever read and would highly recommend it to anyone interested in that period of truly great ships.

[Guest]

While the Wlfred Sykes and American Fortitude may look like sisters, they actually are near sisters. They both have different water-tube boilers and different steam tubines. As a previous poster said, the American Fortitude's stern is different to reduce vibration, as the Wilfred Sykes had disturbed water flow around the propeller. The Fortitude has vertical access to the engine room, which the Sykes did not have. For more details see: "Inland Seas, Fall 1989, Volume 45. A Decade of Great Ships: 1948-58 by Walter C. Cowles."

[Ludington Rob]

The Badger will sail in 2013.

[Guest]

C-4 Sisters

Troy H. Browning, Tom M. Girdler, Charles M. White

[TWilush]

Menihek Lake and Carol Lake were similar in quite a few aspects but were just fleetmates and not sisterships. Changes were rapid at the time and it seems as if the maximum allowed dimensions for the Seaway hadn't been finalized. As such there were several differences between the two including dimensions. Enough differences where I think they'd be classified as related but of different designs (Unlike the more minor variations seen in things like the Fitzgerald/Homer, the AAA's, etc.).

The Gordon C. Leitch and James Norris come to mind for sister ships.

Although not identical, Menihek Lake and Murray Bay (ii) (later Comeaudoc) were extremely similar in design; notably the Murray Bay had larger accommodations forward, but they were still very similar visually. Hulls 163 and 164 at Collingwood in 1959.

[Guest]

Weir built 12 feet longer & coal fired. Sykes built oil fired. I also believe I read somewhere that the weir was built with a modified stern that fixed vibration problems encountered in the sykes. Differences probably enough not to call them sisters.

[LCNerd]

Badger and Spartan must be sisters--haven't they used the Spartan for years to provide parts to keep the Badger operational? Speaking of the Badger--the closer it gets to spring the more nervous I get about whether or not the EPA will grant them an exemption that allows them to continue to operate her.

All you faithful Nerds should contact your U.S. representatives to Congress and your U.S. Senators and tell them to support the Badger and jobs in western Michigan!

Thanks-The LC Nerd

[Duluth Guest]

I am curious to hear why the Sykes and Fortitude would not be considered sisters. Hulls 866 and 869 out of Lorain. Built off the same plans.

[Guest]

Menihek Lake and Carol Lake were similar in quite a few aspects but were just fleetmates and not sisterships. Changes were rapid at the time and it seems as if the maximum allowed dimensions for the Seaway hadn't been finalized. As such there were several differences between the two including dimensions. Enough differences where I think they'd be classified as related but of different designs (Unlike the more minor variations seen in things like the Fitzgerald/Homer, the AAA's, etc.).

The Gordon C. Leitch and James Norris come to mind for sister ships.

[Dave2]

Manihek Lake & Carol Lake?

[Neil W]

Seaway Queen
Frank. A. Sherman

Newbrunswicker - Grande Hermine-Canadian Mariner
Hamiltonian - Petite Hermine - (ii)Canadian Hunter