S.S. Badger

[Brian Ferguson]

I think it's mostly political and about competition. Given the age of the Lake Express her diesels are probably Tier 1 or 2 compliant so even if something highly unlikely, and out of left field were to happen such as the Badger getting laid up pending a resolution and LMC buying the Viking (Diesel/Electric) someone would balk that the engines in the Viking weren't efficient enough. I do believe that there are a group of people out there who won't be happy until coal and fossil fuels are eliminated but I think this is more about competition in the same neighborhood. In the bigger picture it's frustrating because we are regulating our country out of a lot of industries. We do have a responsibility to be ethical in business but we don't have to tie our own arms behind our back and look the other way when the new developing world economies refuse to.

[Guest]

Reply to guest,
A study and and plan was made to convert Badger to diesel-electric (straight geared diesel as in freighters would not reverse quickly enough for Badger's docking needs) and the cost was way too prohibitive. They applied for a grant for the conversion and Lake Express lobbied against it and got it stopped.
The study was done for both ash reclamation and re-firing the boilers with liquified natural gas. LNG is LMC's preferred solution because it permanently eliminates the pollution problem for good and makes her cleaner and greener than any other ship (including Lake Express). All LMC wants is more time to develop the infrastructure for LNG so they don't have to first spend 1/3 more money on ash reclamation.
Diesel-electric would be great but they can't afford it.

In addition, the Coat Guard still has to write the regulations for such a fuel system. I guess they use LNG in Europe for some ships but this would be the first for the states.

If the Coast Guard has not even written up the regulations for such fuel system, then I personally don't see this as being a solution anywhere within the next 5 years (or longer given the way government bureaucracy works). Before being allowed to operate a US-flagged passenger carrying ship with LNG, I assume that an extensive testing program would be required. The use of this fuel could also have a negative impact on the insurance rates carried upon the Badger. Secondly, what is the distrubution network for this type of fuel? It seems to me that obtaining this fuel would be an expensive task given the fact that the Badger would be the only such fueled vessel on the lakes following conversion. I just don't see LNG as being a practical solution for this problem at this time.

[Randy S]

I think the biggest obstacle to LNG conversion right now is the availability of the LNG itself, then toss in on-board storage.

[Mr Link]

In addition, the Coat Guard still has to write the regulations for such a fuel system. I guess they use LNG in Europe for some ships but this would be the first for the states.

The US Coast Guard may not yet have specific regulations for using LNG as a fuel, but they have a design exemption process that allows such systems to be used. See the link below. Interesting to note that steam-powered LNG carriers have been using LNG as a fuel for over 45 years.

http://www.glmri.org/downloads/lngMisc/ ... sner-1.pdf

At least 7 new LNG powered ships are currently on order with US shipbuilders: Five-302 foot long platform supply vessels for Harvey Gulf and two - 764 foot container ships for TOTE. In addition TOTE has signed a contract for design services to convert its two existing 839 foot long Orca class container ships plus Washington State Ferries has received conceptual approval from the Coast Guard to convert 6 existing ferries to burn LNG.

In Canada the replacement for the St. Lawrence ferry Camille Marcoux will burn LNG.

http://www.marinelog.com/index.php?opti ... atest-news

[MilwBob]

Reply to guest,
A study and and plan was made to convert Badger to diesel-electric (straight geared diesel as in freighters would not reverse quickly enough for Badger's docking needs) and the cost was way too prohibitive. They applied for a grant for the conversion and Lake Express lobbied against it and got it stopped.
The study was done for both ash reclamation and re-firing the boilers with liquified natural gas. LNG is LMC's preferred solution because it permanently eliminates the pollution problem for good and makes her cleaner and greener than any other ship (including Lake Express). All LMC wants is more time to develop the infrastructure for LNG so they don't have to first spend 1/3 more money on ash reclamation.
Diesel-electric would be great but they can't afford it.

In addition, the Coat Guard still has to write the regulations for such a fuel system. I guess they use LNG in Europe for some ships but this would be the first for the states.

[deckstir]

Reply to guest,
A study and and plan was made to convert Badger to diesel-electric (straight geared diesel as in freighters would not reverse quickly enough for Badger's docking needs) and the cost was way too prohibitive. They applied for a grant for the conversion and Lake Express lobbied against it and got it stopped.
The study was done for both ash reclamation and re-firing the boilers with liquified natural gas. LNG is LMC's preferred solution because it permanently eliminates the pollution problem for good and makes her cleaner and greener than any other ship (including Lake Express). All LMC wants is more time to develop the infrastructure for LNG so they don't have to first spend 1/3 more money on ash reclamation.
Diesel-electric would be great but they can't afford it.

[Guest]

Watching this situation for some time, I wonder why it still sounds like there is no permanent solution decided upon for the future propulsion of the Badger. Lets face it, coal fired steamers are a thing of the past and at some point it will be necessary to repower the carferry. Most likely this will take the form of a diesel engine. Although maintained, it seems to me that the boilers and current steam engine must be getting long in the tooth, and becomming expensive to maintain. With a hull that should have at least another 50+ years of servicable life remaining, I don't think that securing financing for such a conversion would present much of a problem. Even if an diesel engine is ordered today, it would most likely take up to 2 years or more just for delivery, not to the mention the time necessary for installation at a shipyard. Due to this, I'm really surprised that such a powerplant has not yet been ordered. The bright side of such a move is that it would eliminate the entire issue concerning the use of coal and dumping of ash, a problem that is not likely to go away no matter what steps are taken to store the ash onboard for dumping at an approved landfill.

[Timerover51]

Senator Durbin is an Illinois politician. The past two governors, one Republican and one Democrat went to prison for corruption. Illinois is the home of the phrase "pay to play". Senator Durbin has been in Illinois politics a long time. Enough said?

[LCNerd]

I suggested some time back the possibility that Sen. Durbin's efforts to idle the Badger had more to do with his potentially being in the back pocket of political concerns associated with Lake Express than anything having to do with his supposed ecological concerns created by the dumping of benign ash from the Badger into Lake Michigan.

The Senator from Illinois should perhaps concentrate his efforts on the clean up of his own heavily polluted and toxic backyard before going after Michigan and Wisconsin business concerns.

It's a shame that economicallly stressed areas like Manitowoc and Ludington--where jobs are in relatively short supply, and where tourism provides vital dollars to both areas economies--would be singled out by Senator Durbin in an attempt to eliminate a proud and vital business concern in the transparent name of politics!

The Honorable Senator Durbin--a legislator from the President's own party--a party which purportedly seeks to create and maintain jobs in a weak business climate--is actively seeking to destroy a business, eliminate jobs and hurt the economies of two regions!

I'll take trips on the Badger this year just to avoid having to drive through Senator Durbin's state.

[MilwBob]

What is the actual issue with the Badger? Is it the dumping of the ash or is it the coal in general? If it turns out they are going to keep the ash on board then dispose of it later, it seems to me the issue is resolved? Right?

You can bet your bottom dollar that whether they get a permit or have to store the ash & dispose of it on shore, the next thing Durbin & his gang will be fussing over is the coal smoke.

[Guest]

Outer Boundary Magazine is publishing an expose' on the Lake Express operators efforts to shut down the Badger in its April 1 edition. They influenced the EPA and environmental activists by spreading misinformation and outright lies, created ficticious environmental and marine industry websites slamming the Badger, and hired lobbyists to influence Senator Durbin and others. Meanwhile, entities within Durbin's district are allowed to dump hundreds of pounds of mercury, arsenic and other toxins into the Chicago Sanitary Canal, as well as the Illinois River and Lake Michigan watersheds. Check out the EPA's DMR Pollutant Loading Tool to find out how much toxic pollution the EPA allows public waste treatment facilities to discharge into our water.

[Patrick]

What is the actual issue with the Badger? Is it the dumping of the ash or is it the coal in general? If it turns out they are going to keep the ash on board then dispose of it later, it seems to me the issue is resolved? Right?

I believe the main issue was the ash dumping into the lake. The problem for the company was through cost of trucking it to a land fill. The neatest dump was a cost prohibitive distance. I would have to believe Obama's EPA crusader against coal use doesn't help.

The coal is said to be a benine substance but that doesn't seem to matter. One more case of getting the government we vote for.

[Dave Wobser]

The annual Badger Boatnerd Gathering will take place on June 1, 2013, withas round trip to Manitowoc and back to Ludington. You can also stay over night on board and enjoy tours of the pilothouse and engine room on Friday night. See the Boatnerd Gathering page for all the details.

[Shipwatcher1]

What is the actual issue with the Badger? Is it the dumping of the ash or is it the coal in general? If it turns out they are going to keep the ash on board then dispose of it later, it seems to me the issue is resolved? Right?

[MilwBob]

I'm curious as well. We take a trip on the Badger every year, but this year we are waiting to see if they are going to get an extension concerning the ash dumping. Therefore, we have not finalized our vacation plans this year, as I'm reluctant to plan too far ahead without seeing how this plays out. It seems to be taking an awful long time to hear about a decision on the extension.

As far as i know they will be running, containing the ash on-board and then trucking it to a land fill if necessary. I think the EPA is to make a decision around the end of March. Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois is really fighting hard to make sure the Badger does not get an extension.

[Guest]

Badger will run a full season as usual. Looks like they will store the ash onboard.
http://www.ssbadger.com/home.aspx

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[Guest]

I'm curious as well. We take a trip on the Badger every year, but this year we are waiting to see if they are going to get an extension concerning the ash dumping. Therefore, we have not finalized our vacation plans this year, as I'm reluctant to plan too far ahead without seeing how this plays out. It seems to be taking an awful long time to hear about a decision on the extension.

[Joe Lane]

I am curious as to what is going to happen to the S.S. Badger. It sounds like they are preparing for a regluar season?