Badger Ash Dumping

[Timerover51]

Power plant ash in various forms has been used to mix with concrete (hence the name cinderblock) for block making and other uses for many years. I think the market for it is not very big right now as times have changed.

A friend of mine works at the coal-burning power plant in Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin, and they are selling all of the furnace ash that they produce.

[The Schipper]

What did they do with the fly ash when they had 600 coal burners running at one time?

[Coalburner]

Power plant ash in various forms has been used to mix with concrete (hence the name cinderblock) for block making and other uses for many years. I think the market for it is not very big right now as times have changed.

[Paul A]

I don't think there's any use for clinker ash that the Badger disposes overboard. The ash that is sold comes from the flue scrubbers and is called fly ash. It's added to concrete to make high strength concrete.

[Shawn]

The material hauled on the PM 41 isn't hot and it isn't wet. Those are the challenges the Badger faces with its ash.

It does beg the question, though, whether the ash from the Badger could be sold to the same buyer (or someone else involved in construction trades that could employ the ash in some manner), which may provide sufficient incentive to develop a containment method that could then be transported to said buyer?

I've heard several estimates given of the amount of ash produced by the Badger each crossing, few of which seem even remotely realistic. Does anyone have any hard data concerning the amount of actual ash (not the amount of coal burned to create the ash) is created on a typical crossing, measured in cubic yards, to get a concept of the size required for a containment device that could be portable should a purchaser be found for the waste?

[Guest]

The material hauled on the PM 41 isn't hot and it isn't wet. Those are the challenges the Badger faces with its ash. And deckstir and you others who keep asking "why not oil"--the EPA will not allow Any vessels to burn heavy oil after 2020, so that really isn't an option. There won't be Any steamships operating on the Great Lakes before too long.

The weird part about the SS Badger story is that the owners of the ship move coal ash from the Muskegon power plant up to Charlevoix using PM41/Undaunted. They know how to handle coal ash and the Charlevoix cement plant both pays LMC to move the ash and buys the ash.

LMC's PM41/Undaunted shows up over and over on Muskegon passage page - picking up coal ash and running it to Charlevoix. Why don't they just drop the SS Badger ash into a barge and run it to Charlevoix as well?

http://www.boatnerd.com/passage/muskegon.htm

[New Hollander]

The weird part about the SS Badger story is that the owners of the ship move coal ash from the Muskegon power plant up to Charlevoix using PM41/Undaunted. They know how to handle coal ash and the Charlevoix cement plant both pays LMC to move the ash and buys the ash.

LMC's PM41/Undaunted shows up over and over on Muskegon passage page - picking up coal ash and running it to Charlevoix. Why don't they just drop the SS Badger ash into a barge and run it to Charlevoix as well?

http://www.boatnerd.com/passage/muskegon.htm

[Snoozer]

There are coal-fired electric generating plants at Holland, Port Sheldon, Grand Haven and Muskegon. There must be somewhere in west Michigan to dispose of coal ash.

[deckstir]

At our City of Milwaukee annual meeting in August, one of our guest speakers was the Senior Chief of the Badger. We had a really nice informal Q & A with him. He explained that they had the system for the ash reclamation worked out but that wouldn't eliminate the problem since eventually the EPA could stop them from dumping the ash in the landfill.
He explained that they want to do the LNG conversion making her the cleanest, greenest boat on the lakes but they have to have time to finish working out the logistics. If they ordered the fuel tanks today, they wouldn't be delivered for at least 2 1/2 years. They just don't want to spend 30% of the cost of the LNG conversion on the ash reclamation and then later have to do the LNG.
They haven't been sitting around doing nothing as Dick Durbin and many others have said. They have done a lot of research and leg work to eliminate the problem for good and keep her sailing for a long time.
Diesel Electric is way too pricey and the oil conversion wouldn't be economical due to the firebox design.

[Shawn]

I dont understand what the problem is. When the boat get to Ludington, you drive a dump truck on to the car deck, load up the ashes, and off to the local land fill. This process may take a couple hours, but better then going out of business.

I think there is more to it than that. One issue is that the nearest landfill is almost to Manistee, so the expense of getting it there begins to accumulate rapidly considering wages, vehicle operating expenses, dumping charges, etc... Maybe there is something closer on the Manitowoc side, since that is where they load the coal.

Also, getting the ash up from below decks to the truck isn't going to be an easy feat. I seem to remember they were considering something similar at one point, but using the existing slurry system to jettison the ash to a shoreside container for later transport to a permanent storage area/facility.

Then there is the question of just where and how the EPA is going to allow the ash to be disposed of. I'm not aware of any existing approved containment areas on the Ludington side of the lake.

It's a tough situation with no easy answers. Seems if someone could come up with a use for the ash that would allow it to be turned into a profitable venture to get rid of it, the Badger could become a good source of materials. Things that get you thinking...

[Brent]

I dont understand what the problem is. When the boat get to Ludington, you drive a dump truck on to the car deck, load up the ashes, and off to the local land fill. This process may take a couple hours, but better then going out of business.

[MilwBob]

Good news via Wbay:

http://www.wbay.com/story/20227197/ss-b ... tay-afloat

Hardly a 'new' news story: the application for continueing ash dump has been going on for well over a year; the applicationn was accepted in August, the EPA is due to either approve or deny it within the next month.

[Josh in SSM]

Sen. Durbin, does not own an interested in Lake Express. Someone misread the story that was posted on the Boatnerd news channel, as it talked about both the Lake Express owner, and Sen Durbin, who is in fact trying to get the Badger shut down. No doubt it is about money, but no because he owns Lake Express.

[Norskellunge]

Good news via Wbay:

http://www.wbay.com/story/20227197/ss-b ... tay-afloat

[Shawn]

Badger got an article in the NY Times too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/us/po ... d=fb-share

Not much new there, but the coverage area seems to be expanding...

[Guest II]

Where are people finding this info? I haven't read it anywhere.[/quote]

A great question. Can anybody establish the veracity of the statement that he actually does own or even has an interest in the Lake Express? Or was this just a hip shot?

[Rob]

So the article is misleading in saying he got 14.5 million for the building of the vessel under the merchant marine act and his start up was funded by government loans? Looks like david (LMC) and Goliath (Lake Express). When boats have been dumping coal ash for a century, why is one boat being targeted......? Oh yeah, the all mighty buck and political stature.

[Guest]

Senator Durbin owns the Lake Express? Why haven't I heard about that before? That's huge!

Where are people finding this info? I haven't read it anywhere.

[GreatLaker]

Senator Durbin owns the Lake Express? Why haven't I heard about that before? That's huge!

[MichaelB Detroit]

I'm still mystified as to what is so terrible about coal ash It seems that 500 tons of this stuff isn't really that much when you consider the size of Lake Michigan. Seems to me that it's pretty much just ash and people are getting worked up over something trivial to protect their own interests or push back to nurse their bruised egos.