Boatnerd Discussion Forum

Why do they tow ships across the N Atlantic in the fall ? Given the concern now, with pollution in the islands.
What is wrong with leaving in May tru July before hurricane season

Years ago I watched some lakers being scrapped in Ashtabula, Ohio. Even bought some port hole windows and heavy chain. Process took quite awhile, even w/ road access. I don't think in those days (1970's) much environmental concern was thought of. Also seem to remember a fair amount of Asbestos. Is scrapping done overseas because of environmental concerns or cheap labor?

sh71382 wrote:This cant be good on the hull, being swung and drug over the rocky bottom.

I imagine that's probably how that hole opened up in the first place. If she was hung up on a rock at that spot, it probably punched into her bottom and yanked the side plates out as she was dragged sideways by the force of the waves. Now that the sea has found its way in, it's only a matter of time before the stern is torn away completely.

I also noticed the angle of the bow relative to her midsection. I wasn't sure if it was an optical illusion from the rain and spray or from the angle of the photo, but she does appear to be buckled between the #4 and 5 hatches.

sh71382 wrote:I would venture a guess, that her back is broken, forward of midship. Her bow is sagging down forward of the first hatch stacking area on deck. Looking at the way the deck is sagging, it looks like she has broken in two places, it just hasnt shown fully in torn steel and ripped open decks.

I was thinking the same thing as I viewed the photo, but you beat me to the punch. Amazing what the forces of water can do even to something so strong as a laker! Ripping it apart like a child's toy.

Given my experiences on board and many warm personal connections with people who sailed her, viewing the photo is almost unbearable.

On my desk is a framed photo of the ship taken in December 2008. She is in the pool between Eisenhower and Snell, on her last downbound trip. I had just sounded the car horn as she passed and received a wave and salute in return. Also in the photo are a pair of nearby trees, bare of leaves, facing the imminent winter.

But in the end she beat the hangman on that hellish beach in Turkey

Latest news reports this morning on CTV local news channel has Nova Scotia government launching a multi million dollar lawsuit against the towing tug Hellas` owners . The Cape Breton Post reports that the provincial government will remove the vessel if necessary , as they wish to act quickly to protect the fishing grounds . I think though that that report was made before they were really informed as to how badly damaged the hull has become .

Any oily bilge water that was still left in the engine room has been washed away , and is now more than likely out side the ship`s hull , where wave action will take care of it . As already quite evident , and pointed out by sh71382 , the engine room is flooded , and the bulkhead between it and the cargo hold has probably become tidal as well . So the ship is quite open to the sea , and will never float again . Priority now is to prevent any damage to the shore , and to get any residual oils out of the engine room as fast as possible . Ballast tank mud residue , will be washed away as well , but I don`t really think it will cause a lot of local damage , because as we know , erosion , and subsequent sand particles , are always moving with the waves and tide and this deposit will be spread out over a large area .

Now though the legal stuff starts , and placing the blame has already begun , so this part of the ship`s loss will be the most complicated . The biggest mistake , the first few days of little success were not acted on quick enough . Be interesting to see how future scrap tows are handled from our waters to overseas after this incident .

Slip wrote:I agree with you. The more I look at the picture the more I seem to see that the stern doesn't seem to be in correct alignment, either side to side or heighthwise with the bow. Pretty tough to really see. A overhead or low side picture would be better.

I noticed that too - it appears that she has a slight bend to port, right about where the hatch crane sits

I don't know how wide those hatch covers are, but that hole in the starboard side spans the length of 4 covers!

If you look at the picture, it may be angle of the camera, but I would venture a guess, that her back is broken, forward of midship. Her bow is sagging down forward of the first hatch stacking area on deck. Looking at the way the deck is sagging, it looks like she has broken in two places, it just hasnt shown fully in torn steel and ripped open decks. It looks like the first break is up forward at or about the first cargo hold, the second break is in the last cargo hold where the hull has been torn open, it looks like it is sagging a bit higher there. The engine room gangway looks like it caved in and is open as well so the engine room is likely flooded. Secondly that hole in the side of the ship looks to be at least 75 feet long and at least 15 feet high, at least one full plate line, perhaps even two strakes. I wouldnt be surprised if the wave action has blown through the engine room bulkhead or started tearing into the other side. That is significant structural loss and I dont think the ship will ever float again. Maybe they will pull off sections or cut it up there, but its not coming off in one peice in my oppinion.

On another point, look at the first photo of her aground on the island, she was at least a hundred yards off shore then, now in the most recent photo her bow has swung far in and is a mere 25 feet off shore now (just guessing) This cant be good on the hull, being swung and drug over the rocky bottom.

Guest wrote:I don't see how they can say "There has been no structural damage that we can see" with that big hole in the side. Water has been blasting in that hole hard enough to blow the hatch cover off. I can't believe it has caused no other damage to the ship.

Barges could be brought in , with an anchored , or spudded barge with a crane on board to lift the pieces off , bit by bit . Then a tug could bring the loaded barge around the island , and land it at the shore of Main-a-Dieu , either at the wharf , or more than likely another designated spot . Then the scrap pieces could be hauled off by truck into Sydney , or wherever the scrap owner has sold the steel . Will take awhile , as weather will always be the deciding factor .

And , as no salvage will begin probably until next spring , the thing to do now , and as quickly as possible , is secure the hull as solidly as possible to the shore , so over the course of the winter , as it breaks up more , those pieces will stay where they are , instead of being dragged out to deeper water , and becoming a menace to local boats and navigation .

I agree with you. The more I look at the picture the more I seem to see that the stern doesn't seem to be in correct alignment, either side to side or heighthwise with the bow. Pretty tough to really see. A overhead or low side picture would be better.

As I said from the first day , there was no way the Miner would be leaving Scaterie , and looks like if she does , it will be one piece at a time . That`s #6 cargo hold open to the sea , and I`ll bet that the double bottom , or tank top , is open and torn apart as well . The after cargo hold bulkhead more than likely has been comprimised , as boarding and incoming seas had enough energy to blow off a clamped hatch cover .

I`ll hazard an opinion here regarding the ` still in one piece ` statement made by officials , as I believe that the only reason she looks to be in one piece is the fact that the hull is sitting on solid ground , or rock . She`ll be in two pieces as soon as that changes , or if another storm hits again soon .

RIP Maplecliffe Hall , you were a great laker , a fine ship , and I was proud to sail on you .

How would this ship be salvaged on site? Doesn't seem to be any roads on island. Would the salvage be water based? I once saw a large car ferry cut into pieces w/ all the automobiles still chained in place. The hull was cut with a diamond impregnated wire similar to a large band saw. Each cut section was then lifted out and barged away. What lifting capabilities are existent in todays technology?

I don't see how they can say "There has been no structural damage that we can see" with that big hole in the side. Water has been blasting in that hole hard enough to blow the hatch cover off. I can't believe it has caused no other damage to the ship.

HI! I just listened to a radio interview with the CBC and Keith Laidlaw of the CCG emergency responce group. Here are some details I noted. The ship is taking some storm seas of 40 feet and has One hatch cover blown off and a 15 metre hole in the stern but is in one piece. Approx. 3000 litres of mixed oils are onboard and all but 500 litres of diesel are left to run the generator. The owner of the ship is still in control of the ship and is working with salvage and government officials..You can here this report and see uptodate picture ot he wreck by googling cbc .ca and go to mv miner.I have talked to my friend in Cape Breton who is in the ship repair buisness and he hears that the ship is a total constructive loss and the ship will never leave canadian waters and will be salvaged onsite. This is not official but is the story in the local marine trade

That picture of her is painful beyond words to look at.

"There has been no structural damage that we can see."
So is this disregarding the 15m hole at the stern and amidships?

That link to CBC didnot work for me. I eventually did get there, and found a picture from the Canadian Coast Guard which flew ove Thursday. The picture shows the bow touching shore. it also shows a hatch cover gone. A air crew member saw a 15 meter hole at the stern. Also reported was a hole in the side. It further states the decks are awash w/ 40 foot waves breaking over. They say the good news is that the ship is not sinking and they see no structural damage, and the ship is still in one piece. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot ... -ship.html

The latest report from the CBC sounds like things are getting bad. The way things are going I'm not sure what kind of buoyancy will be left.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot ... -ship.html

Just read an article in The Cape Breton Post which is quoting the Canadian Press as saying that D.Dexter, NovaScotia Premier, has received reports as to the original towing permits having problems, and that NovaScotia has to be ready to act if Bureatic red tape occurs with salvage.. The article also says Govt. is in talks W/ J.D.Irving a NewBrunswick tug company.

Bob G, I appreciate your answer. Also, the info from Herb is appreciated. I guess all we have is conjecture, as to whats going on up there. No news sure isn't good news. Thanks again. Can't understand the delay in decisions as to plans. Its a tough one.