Boatnerd Discussion Forum

Calumet entering upper Detroit River @ 0824 from Lake St Clair.

Guest wrote:

scott wrote:i didn't know The Jones Act was in charge of construction costs!

It isn't. To claim it is is completely dishonest.

I won't speak for the original poster, but I took that comment to mean that because of the Jones Act, the US fleets continue to use the 1000 footers and other Poe Lock only ships well past their prime, repowering and modernizing them instead of outright replacement, like the Canadian fleets are doing. If new ships were built, they could be downsized to Seaway Max dimensions, therefore providing redundancy at the Soo. And allowing a smaller lock to be built if and when construction ever happens.

scott wrote:i didn't know The Jones Act was in charge of construction costs!

It isn't. To claim it is is completely dishonest.

Woodtick wrote:The idea of the need for a new lock is questionable, the 13 boats that use it are at east 30 years old, their has been no investment in new American ships other than the labor saving tug barge combo. If we were truly worried about the national economy why was the Escanaba ore dock closed ? This was the only ore dock not dependent on the locks to ship ore out.

I have Hauled in Dyed Diesel to The Empire Mine a couple Dozen times!, The Tilden Mine is connected to the Empire Mine!,is also owned buy Cliffs!,and shares the entry driveway and the same scale and guard shack!,I am no expert!,but it sure seems easy to redirect the Rail road tracks to run to the Escanaba Docks!,as well as the Marquette Docks!,The Tilden Mine is double the size of the Empire!,and the reason the Empire Mine shut down was NOT because of the economy! it was because there is to much overburden to move to get to the good Material! This info was told to Me from the workers who work in the Mines! thank You, mn brett

i didn't know The Jones Act was in charge of construction costs!

The U.S. shipping industry has declined nearly to the point of extinction under the weight of the Jones Act and other regulations.

Just like how union labor has destroyed manufacturing in the U.S.A.

We need the Jones Act. If it goes US shipping will be gone with it.

All Canadian ships and salties could be using the Mac lock and likey would in an emergency. the army corp just forces them to use the Poe to create delays and justify a new lock.

Oscar wrote:The Jones Act has inflated the cost of this lock by 40% to 50%..Another reason the Jones Act needs to go.

The Jones Act is going no where, it has solid bipartisan support. If it did just about every US merchant Mariner, including myself, could kiss goodbye to their jobs.

The Jones Act has inflated the cost of this lock by 40% to 50%.....Another reason the Jones Act needs to go.

Guest wrote:Why so much discussion on building a new Poe lock? If any one of the Seaway 15 locks were to suffer a problem, other than the flights, it would shut the system down. At the Soo there is already a back up lock, smaller but still good for sending cargo through on smaller ships. The mighty Poe, completed in 1968, is the youngest of them all.

The difference is the vessels that can not transit the MaCarthur Lock. What ever happens to the seaway only effects those vessels not the larger vessels, which at this time is the majority of the tonnage that transfers the locks. So what happens in the seaway is actually irrelevant. Also even being 1968 makes it basically 50 years old.

Why so much discussion on building a new Poe lock? If any one of the Seaway 15 locks were to suffer a problem, other than the flights, it would shut the system down. At the Soo there is already a back up lock, smaller but still good for sending cargo through on smaller ships. The mighty Poe, completed in 1968, is the youngest of them all.

My point was the original 13 were the only ships designed for that lock, companies have modified other boats to meet those dimensions,
They could be at considerable cost modified to meet the other lock dimensions.

Do any of the 15 locks on the St. Lawrence Seaway have a twin "just in case"?

Yes. Three flight locks at the end of the Welland Canal. But they are designed to keep traffic moving.

Marc wrote: Its actually well over 13 vessels that are restricted to the Poe Lock. Oberstar & St. Clair for instance.

A position the ship companies helped put themselves in. When the current Poe Lock was on the drawing boards, the companies lobbied The Corp of Engineers to expand the dimensions so they could build their super carriers. Vessels like the Oberstar that were lengthened could've remained within length to use the MacArthur Lock.

If we need a new lock why not let Canada share in the cost to construct such a project. there is no charge for using the locks so why not start charging a fee ? why should the U S tax payer always foot the bill for these redundant projects ? just a few questions on who should pay for such a build !

Do any of the 15 locks on the St. Lawrence Seaway have a twin "just in case"?

Maybe the shipping companies should pay for a new lock.

The Federal Government spends close to $4 trillion a year. The cost of this lock probably wouldn't even resister as an accounting error. At least it would be an actual infrastructure improvement

Woodtick wrote:The idea of the need for a new lock is questionable, the 13 boats that use it are at east 30 years old, their has been no investment in new American ships other than the labor saving tug barge combo. If we were truly worried about the national economy why was the Escanaba ore dock closed ? This was the only ore dock not dependent on the locks to ship ore out.

When you use misinformation to make your argument, it casts a cloud over your argument. Its actually well over 13 vessels that are restricted to the Poe Lock. Oberstar & St. Clair for instance. In fact, 70% of U.S.-flag carrying capacity can only use the Poe.