Boatnerd Discussion Forum

There has also been a lot of personal changes at Algoma. Right from the very top down.

You never know the little side deals that could have been made, Im sure they did the Valor cause its to big for the canal so that cuts down on competition rite there, maybe they payed lot and lots of money to the point Algoma couldn't refuse.

It is an interesting move by Algoma, which makes me think they did it on the condition that it will solely take over the Soo run contract.

My gut is they'll repower it- tug barges are not as efficient or safe on large expanses of open water unless you have a very large tug unit, like the Joyce or Clyde. Invincible is not strong enough to push 740 feet at 14 knots. To barge it, they'd need a new tug. For smaller groups which do more river stuff, ATBs are maneuverable and efficient, but on big lakes, the laker is still the most efficient.

Very interesting that Algoma would actually sell to LLT, considering the lengths they went to to keep the James Norris out of their hands.

Darryl wrote:

Can't see why any Canadian company would want this ship as she is too long for the seaway and is captive to the upper lakes. Perhaps cut up as a tug /barge and shortened to max. 740 ft. Is the answer.

That's why I thought it might have been for the Grand River side of the business, but from posted comments most think that would not be the case. As far as Algoma buying the company, I'd wonder if they would divest the American boats back to American companies. I should have been a lawyer specializing in maritime law. Job security.

I would guess ASC had a clause in the sale contract, that this vessel could not be flagged US when Algoma bought it, or if they resold it.
LLT would have the money to repower, as they are the only company that did not go bankrupt when Rand and Grand River did.
Only Tug & Barges in the company are GRN, so I don't see them going down that road.

Wheelsman wrote:Responding to "3"'s inquiry, yes, there is an LLT/GRN tug that's been idle in Ashtabula for some time. From the Point Place by the museum, I am unable to read the name with binos, though, as it has light-color lettering on the name board.

Invincible

The only example of a ship-to-ATB conversion on the Canadian side was the Sarah Spencer. I'm sure it is telling that nobody followed suit.

Responding to "3"'s inquiry, yes, there is an LLT/GRN tug that's been idle in Ashtabula for some time. From the Point Place by the museum, I am unable to read the name with binos, though, as it has light-color lettering on the name board.

ashland69 wrote:For what it's worth, since the Valor obviously needs a lot of work to sail, I believe she'll be converted to a barge - maybe at Sturgeon Bay. It's apparently also rumored that the Mississagi is through. As someone has said, perhaps the Valor will take over the Michipicoten runs and the Michipicoten will do what the Mississagi did. If Mississagi is finished, what's the future like for the CTC No. 1 and the old Richard Reiss (sorry, temporarily forgot its name!)?

They've never done a barge conversion, and Canadian regulations don't make it as advantageous to barge a ship as American regulations do. She'll be repowered.

ashland69 wrote:For what it's worth, since the Valor obviously needs a lot of work to sail, I believe she'll be converted to a barge - maybe at Sturgeon Bay. It's apparently also rumored that the Mississagi is through. As someone has said, perhaps the Valor will take over the Michipicoten runs and the Michipicoten will do what the Mississagi did. If Mississagi is finished, what's the future like for the CTC No. 1 and the old Richard Reiss (sorry, temporarily forgot its name!)?

What makes you think that it wouldn't be repowered?

It's highly unlikely they'll barge the Valor. LLT has repowered the Cuyahoga, Michipicoten and Saginaw. There's no reason they wouldnt do the same to the Valor

The Richard Reiss is now the Manistee which is in long term lay up in Toledo and I would say and guess that she is probably done and finished in all likelihood and in the not too distant future probably a scrap tow to IMS at Port Colborne awaits her fate.

For what it's worth, since the Valor obviously needs a lot of work to sail, I believe she'll be converted to a barge - maybe at Sturgeon Bay. It's apparently also rumored that the Mississagi is through. As someone has said, perhaps the Valor will take over the Michipicoten runs and the Michipicoten will do what the Mississagi did. If Mississagi is finished, what's the future like for the CTC No. 1 and the old Richard Reiss (sorry, temporarily forgot its name!)?

The Invincible will eventually replace the Olive L Moore

As far as the barge idea goes, doesn't LLT still have a tug without a barge sitting around since they returned the McKee Sons?

The Valor could also do the grain coal shuttle the Saginaw does frequently!

Shipwatcher1 wrote: IF Mississagi is to be retired at seasons end as the rumors suggest and the Michipicoten takes over her runs, then the Valor would be perfect for the ore routes that Michipicoten does currently.

Honestly this makes the most sense pending some newbuild in the pipeline. They'd still likely have to repower her for emissions compliance and for ease of crewing, since I can't imagine the pool of qualified mariners available to run her plant is very deep.

I don't think the length is as much of an issue as everyone thinks it is. While too long to go through the Welland/St. Lawrence, LLT could have her take over for the Michipicoten on the Lake Superior-Soo ore shuttle. She could also make runs from the Canadian stone mines down to the Sarnia/Windsor area or Lake Erie or Lake Michigan ports.
LLT vessels such as the Cuyahoga, Michipicoten and Saginaw seem to make only a few trips through the canal a season anyway. No reason she couldn't stay above Port Colborne.

Howie wrote:Can't see why any Canadian company would want this ship as she is too long for the seaway and is captive to the upper lakes. Perhaps cut up as a tug /barge and shortened to max. 740 ft. Is the answer.

The LLT boats are not in the Welland near as much as other fleets. IF Mississagi is to be retired at seasons end as the rumors suggest and the Michipicoten takes over her runs, then the Valor would be perfect for the ore routes that Michipicoten does currently.

Can't see why any Canadian company would want this ship as she is too long for the seaway and is captive to the upper lakes. Perhaps cut up as a tug /barge and shortened to max. 740 ft. Is the answer.

That's why I thought it might have been for the Grand River side of the business, but from posted comments most think that would not be the case. As far as Algoma buying the company, I'd wonder if they would divest the American boats back to American companies. I should have been a lawyer specializing in maritime law. Job security.