Great Lakes Warriors - History Channel

[Guest II]

Does anybody remember "Lakeboat"? GLW reminds me of that. As for Capt. John and his comment on the new first mate having to earn respect, how can the mate do that when the captain calls him "Fat Boy" and "Porkchop" in front of the crew? Having been aboard Lakers for many years, I say that the language in this series was more of an exception than the rule. I'm not a prude but genuine people don't have to talk like that. Didn't happen in the USAF either.

[Coalburner]

Ok, I watched the new episode last night. On the tow of the oil tanks, the shaft RPM's were slowing down. This is a geared tug and there would be no electrical problems. So, where did they get that "engineer"? If a diesel is loosing power (barring a major mechanical problem), there are a number of reasons for this.
1. Overheating, can be caused by plugged strainers or air in the engine from not maintaining a proper water level in the expansion tank. There should be a temperature gauge for this and you can also observe the overboard discharge of cooling water, a normal observation for the engineer.
2. Loss of compressed air to operate the governor caused by a weak air compressor.
3. More likely the fuel was stirred up by the waves and the fuel filter was plugged, there should be a gauge for fuel pressure.
I don't have a clue what that box fan was useful for except to cool the crew.
A glance at the stack for smoking or non-smoking would be a clue also.
Another tricky method is to carefully open up the cylinder blow off valves to see if all cylinders are firing. You can also feel the individual exhaust headers for each cylinder. Not so easy on an EMD.

[Denny]

Anyone know how episode number two went last night? I got busy and unfortunately forgot about watching the program last night. Did I miss anything good and has the content improved from the first episode? Any comments or feedback is appreciated. Thanks.

[Guest]

I would have enjoyed the show just as much with the sound turned off. I found the images compelling, but the dialog.. boring.

I have a question.

Watching Deadliest Catch and Great Lakes Warriors, I noticed a common thread among captains and crew Smoking.
What is it about a life at sea that attracts heavy smokers?

I got to spend a day aboard a Great Lakes Tug out of Chicago, the crew got along, I don't remember any of them smoking, and they seemed to enjoy their work and each other's company.

The life at sea doesn't draw smokers. The life at sea creates smokers.

[MN Boater]

Tow boating is days of boredom followed by moments of shere terror

Hahaha, that is very true! In growing up and living in St. Paul, before I moved to the western 'burbs, I ran the river quite a bit. Everyone I knew had a pleasure craft on the river. So, I got to know quite a few people that worked on the barges, tow boats and ship yards. I made quite a few day trips on different tow boats around the Twin City area. A few times I got to ride from St. Paul down to lock & dam #2 in Hastings MN., about 30 miles south of St. Paul. There is a RR swing bridge just south of the downtown St. Paul airport that had a Very tight left turn to line up and make it through the bridge without hitting anything. One tow captain said you head right towards shore till you think you're going to go aground, then count to ten, then go just a tad further, then turn hard left! Pretty technical seamanship eh! When they leave St. Paul with 5 barges long and 3 wide, that's all you can fit through that bridge. That is also makes it so you only have to break the tow in half to go through locks #2 in Hastings.

[jrm1270]

So, how come the captains of these tug boats shown on this show
are called captains, but the captains that run the pusher tow boats in the Mississippi River are called pilots? The "pilots" operate longer barge/tow set-ups (called tows) than anything in the great lakes.
They can leave St. Paul at 1150 feet long and 105 feet wide, and further south in the river be almost 1500 feet long and 175 feet wide.

On the tow boats, the Captain is still the captain. The pilot is the first mate so to speak. The pilot is running the boat and tow when the captain is off watch.

[syd bc]

Tow boating is days of boredom followed by moments of shere terror

[gyroplanes]

I would have enjoyed the show just as much with the sound turned off. I found the images compelling, but the dialog... boring.

I have a question.

Watching Deadliest Catch and Great Lakes Warriors, I noticed a common thread among captains and crew Smoking.
What is it about a life at sea that attracts heavy smokers?

I got to spend a day aboard a Great Lakes Tug out of Chicago, the crew got along, I don't remember any of them smoking, and they seemed to enjoy their work and each other's company.

[Guest]

So, how come the captains of these tug boats shown on this show
are called captains, but the captains that run the pusher tow boats in the Mississippi River are called pilots? The "pilots" operate longer barge/tow set-ups (called tows) than anything in the great lakes.
They can leave St. Paul at 1150 feet long and 105 feet wide, and further south in the river be almost 1500 feet long and 175 feet wide.

[DCN]

Wisconsin Public Radio’s show University of the Air has an interview with the producer (?) of the show. You can go to their online archives and look for the July 22 episode entitled ‘Great Lake Warriors’ at:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/UniversityOfTheAir
or here is the direct link to the audio file: http://podcast.wpr.org/uoa/uoa120722.mp3

DCN

[Ohio Marine]

I'll tape it this Thursday so I can fast forward over the absurb and repeated parts. Probably that will leave maybe seven minutes of viewing Friday. Hope those are better than last week's.

[Norskellunge]

I am always happy to have any excuse for professionaly done HD video to be taken about Great Lakes vessels.

The show left me reasonably satisfied, and I'm basking in the attention that the Great Lakes get. However, there are a few things I grit my teeth over.

I tend to watch more Discovery Channel shows in this genre and much less History Channel shows for a few reasons that seem to be true for most of their series. Whereas Discovery allows their characters to be themselves and, if scripted, does it losely so that the characters are able to respond naturally, History seems to script too rigidly or bottle up the characters. There are professional actors out there for a reason - and these guys aren't them. I see this a lot in newer episodes of Pawn Stars (rediculous Subway promotions) and increasing in almost all of their "reality" series.

Discovery also seems to pay much more attention to character development and emotion in their series. Deadliest Catch is what it is because people get attached to the different crews through stories about their past, glimpses into their family lives, and genuine humor. It's like music with dynamics vs. music that just maintains the same volume and pace throughout.

History has some people on Great Lake Warriors that have some genuine personalities, they just need to do a better job of lacing their stories together with the action they experience. In a nutshell, History needs to be more of a storyteller and less of a storymaker.

Yes, the references to "massive storms" when they show one foot waves and computer generated snow is laughable, but for a first show I see hope in the series. The scenes of the tug crew trying to wrangle the drifting barges was definitely a step in the right direction.

Just my three cents.

[Lighthouse Sherri]

I enjoyed the show....remember it is a show not a documentary. I do agree that Dennis Hale or Dave Erickson would be great people to interview for a program. If it was in the context of a documentary on shipwreck survivors. The GLW focus is on tugs. In this great country of ours it's awesome we all can have different opinions but bond over our common love of the lakes.

[KDHenry]

While all of the previous comments have valid points, one major factor has been largely missed so far in this discussion: the intended audience of the show. Some may say that the show is overly dramatic and does not portray an accurate sense of reality in the world of great lakes tugboating, but that is exactly what the producers of the show are aiming for. Simply put, hyped-up dramatic shows make for good television. Look at some other examples such as Deadliest Catch, Ice Road Truckers, and Pawn Stars (the last two being produced by the same company as Great Lakes Warriors). None of these shows give a completely accurate picture of a typical day in the professions displayed in the shows. The pawn shop shown in Pawn Stars is far from a typical pawn shop, as are the items that are brought into the shop and seen on the show. However, all of those shows are incredibly successful and have large, regular audiences. In fact, after the first season of Ice Road Truckers, the show was forced to film in a different location because the company that owned the road that the show was filmed on (and the mine that the truckers hauled to) felt that the show did not present a positive picture of the road, the truckers, and all respective operations to the general public (in the eyes of the mine company). They no longer gave permission for the show to be filmed on their property, and the show was forced to find other locations to film at. The History Channel is not producing a documentary on Great Lakes tugboats - they are producing a dramatic show about a tough profession on the Great Lakes. Although many of us boatnerds would love to see such an accurate, documentary-style show, the overall general American public would find such a show to be, quite frankly, incredibly boring. "Boring" shows do not make for good tv, and the show would not be a commercial success. Boatnerds are not the intended audience of this show; millions of Americans and Canadians who have no idea whatsoever of what life and work are like on the Great Lakes are the true intended audience. To capture that audience, the show has to be overly dramatic and hyped-up. It is all a matter of audience and capturing their attention. So will the show be successful in the long run? It is way too earlier to tell after just the first episode. If the show has indeed captured the attention of millions of mainstream American and Canadian tv audiences, then it will be a success. Only time will tell.

[ed mertz]

I can't help but wonder what the 'owners' of these tugboat 'warriors' think about the show. I'd like to hear from them about the show.

[Jerry Lawson]

The objections to the over scripted nature of the show is offered in a constructive way in hope that the producers of the show will see this and examine the direction of the show and make adjustments. If all eight shows are in the can, the program will fail. If adjustments can be made, there is a great deal of hope for the show. They need to concentrate more on the job and less on the drama. It would also help to get aboard the ships and cover the story from the side of the ship as well as on the tug.

[Guest]

Hi. I just watched on-line thanks to the link offered in this thread. Thank you for offering the link.

I agree with many here that there are several inadequacies in the production. I agree that there are several liberties taken with the content.

However, I wanted to share this thought. With how many of us here on this message board as well as between us as friends when we chat liberally about the lakes, how can we take so much toil against the producers of the program when we often times wish others nation-wide would recognize how perilous the work is on the lakes?

So we have a show that takes liberties. I bet the fishing shows and ice trucker shows do the same. It's within the dynamic of directorial liberty for the drama of TV.

I'm not terribly offended by the inaccuracies. I wish they were more on-point with that stuff. But... I'm fine with the overall nature of the show. It does reflect some of the perils faced on the lakes. It does render to the non-Great Lakes resident the hazards faced. It does offer some respect to the people that work the lakes, at least in the dramatic rendering offered for those that may be watching and have no idea what life on the lakes may be when times are rough out there.

So, I'm not too disappointed... so far.

[Coalburner]

I think we have done a good job of picking apart the show, but I want to see more, even if it is a little lame. We need them to go aboard more tugs like the GLT fleet and Moran and Purvis, and others. Now some of these guys don't want to be there because they might get caught with their life jacket off or other rule infractions that "just happen". I remember the "Dirty Jobs" episode where the junkyard guy cuts the airconditioning line and just "lets her rip". Not a good thing environmentally! But I have traveled with a full bilge that I can't pump over the side because of the oil in it. And when te bilge gets high, it gets very close to the propulsion motor and generator.

[historygal]

Folks- Thank you for posting such astute observations about the show. Although it is important to remember this is a reality show, the content lacked any real research. As a caveat, the History Channel needs to think about changing names- The AHistorical Channel - With the exception of the recent Hatfield and McCoys, which combined the right lighting and ambience with some action, most shows on the History Channel border on genres such as the ridiculous "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Slayer.
(I think the esteemed historian Eric Foner probably drank all week after that debaucle debuted - can you believe the idiot producers called him to be a consultant on the film!)
Moving on to the task at hand . . .
Great Lakes History, maritime history in particular, transcends regional stories and it is essential for the maritime heritage of this region to find serious recognition as integral to the national narrative. The "sea" (ocean) dominates both serious scholarship and public history and it is time for the Lakes to establish a stronger sense of place. Maritime commerce of the Lakes encompasses a cross section of themes including labor history, material culture, shipboard culture, technology (shipbuidling) - to establish a sense of people and place via reality television diminishes the skill of the Lakes sailors, the importance of the Lakes in foreign policy (1954-Seaway), the interconnectedness of ports to our nation's commerce and the ever reigning symbol of American progress; the ship.

I will not spew vitrioles against Compass Point Productions or Tower Productions but I would urge those who love all things Great Lakes Maritime to send a scathing email to the History Channel- they allowed for this to be aired!!

Moreover,Shipwrecks are interesting to study on a number of levels for a number of reasons, however, they still are tragedies- Titillating the audience with staged moves on an already dangerous piece of equipment is just stupid-

In addition, portraying a Great Lakes Captain as some unruly "Jack Tar" is antiquated and insulting to the intelligence of the viewer -Are we living in the early nineteenth century? I don't think so -if you want Jack Tar- watch Pirates of the Caribbean OR better yet actuallly read a book!! How about James Fenimore Cooper? You can entertain your self with ALL the fictitious characters you want!

The show at the very least points out that a career in marine transportation on the Lakes is no easy task - but that's no mystery - after all Rudyard Kipling described one of them as "the fully accredited ocean" -

I am finished with my diatribe- I neverpost on anything but I was quite curiosu as to the buzz and "whether or not Great Lakes Warblers/Wobblers (certainly not Warriors) was "trending"

Get out there, write your Congressman, the History Channel support you local historical societies, musuems, love the sailors and please salute the flag
God Bless America and God Bless The Great Lakes Maritime Industry-

[hayhugh2]

I, also was a little disappointed with the Warriors show, but as with any of the reality shows ( "Deadliest Catch",etc.)they all lack reality. Keep repeating, and coming up with impossible situations or things that might happen once in 50 years seem to happen at least three times on an hour show. Some people like this kind of thing but to people who have done these type of jobs, it's just a comedy!