Boatnerd Discussion Forum

Can't see why any Canadian company would want this ship as she is too long for the seaway and is captive to the upper lakes. Perhaps cut up as a tug /barge and shortened to max. 740 ft. Is the answer.

Guest wrote:

Guest wrote:This seems to be a strange development considering Algoma has every reason to keep any usable ship from a competitor.[/quote

It's bizarre in the extreme for Algoma management to allow the sale of Valo to a competitor. Since they are still having newbuilds coming in the next few years, why sell to a competitor who will compete against your existing and future fleet with a vessel you sold them? The costs for any entrant into the Great Lakes shipping industry is high and hence exclusive, so why allow a competitor to have an existing ship, even one that's been in layup for 11 years, and that will in the near future be used as competition to your fleet?

I don't get it.

Possibly Algoma will acquire LLT in the near future, negating any current sale-to-the-competition worries? Was Rand Logistics not considering a divestiture of their marine assets (LLT & GRN) in the recent past? Algoma acquires LLT and reduces competition, while the LLT ships are sold elsewhere or laid up... Every shipping company wins in this scenario, whether by competition elimination or reduction of available vessels to move cargo.

[quote="Guest"]This seems to be a strange development considering Algoma has every reason to keep any usable ship from a competitor.[/quote

It's bizarre in the extreme for Algoma management to allow the sale of Valo to a competitor. Since they are still having newbuilds coming in the next few years, why sell to a competitor who will compete against your existing and future fleet with a vessel you sold them? The costs for any entrant into the Great Lakes shipping industry is high and hence exclusive, so why allow a competitor to have an existing ship, even one that's been in layup for 11 years, and that will in the near future be used as competition to your fleet?

I don't get it.

Seems kind of silly when no work was ever done to her (The point of the rule revision was to prevent major shipyard work being done overseas rather than at a US shipyard, wasn't it?).

But common sense rarely applies to national governments.

Geest wrote:

Darryl wrote:I wonder if there is any chance that the Grand River side of the business will operate the ship and it will stay as an active American hull.

Unlikely as the US-flag registry was closed when she transferred from ASC to Algoma. I don't think Rand/LLT is going to be able to bring her back into US Flag operations from a foreign flag, especially without a fight from other US Flag fleets on the lakes.

Having been re-flagged foreign, any ship CAN be re-flagged American. However, it will no longer be Jones Act compliant. So there is no point in re-flagging the Valo, since it would only be eligible to carry cross border traffic; while currently being flagged Canadian it could carry cross border traffic and Canadian coastal traffic.

All this stems from a 1935 change in the Jones Act law. It would require Congress to change the law to become eligible for Jones Act service again. As far as I know, this applies regardless if it is a ship or a barge.

This seems to be a strange development considering Algoma has every reason to keep any usable ship from a competitor.

Darryl wrote:I wonder if there is any chance that the Grand River side of the business will operate the ship and it will stay as an active American hull.

As it was already sold off foreign, it cannot be brought back into USA registry as a ship. I am unaware of the legalities concerned if the hull was converted to a barge and whether it would qualify for re-flagging.

As for operation as a steam plant, it is possible, but it would be a short-lived endeavour. With IMO 2020 emission mandates coming online, and the issues associated with steam propulsion in general, conversion to a motor ship is more likely than not. It may have been laid up in the proper manner, but inefficiency is inefficiency. Bringing up steam on a plant that sat idle and cold for 10+ years is not without issues. Canadian law is not favourable to barge conversions when compared to USA laws, so I would expect to see a conversion to a motor ship (assuming it remains flagged Canadian).

I believe the Comeaudoc was notoriously underpowered after conversion, no? Further, I am not positive about the laws concerning emission controls for replacement engines. US EPA law permits exemptions for marine use, in summary, if the conversion to a newly-produced engine would result in excessive costs for major modifications to other systems. For instance, if a new engine is not compatible with the already-installed reduction gear, but a 30-year-old engine IS compatible, permission may be granted to use the older, non-compliant engine. This is apples to oranges, however, as Canadian law is likely different than USA law. Likewise, when converting a steamship to motor propulsion, any argument of non-compatibility with existing systems is a moot point, since the engine room is essentially gutted in many respects.

Darryl wrote:I wonder if there is any chance that the Grand River side of the business will operate the ship and it will stay as an active American hull.

Unlikely as the US-flag registry was closed when she transferred from ASC to Algoma. I don't think Rand/LLT is going to be able to bring her back into US Flag operations from a foreign flag, especially without a fight from other US Flag fleets on the lakes.

Darryl wrote:I wonder if there is any chance that the Grand River side of the business will operate the ship and it will stay as an active American hull.

Algoma had already flagged it out of Canada so that is very unlikely

Registered Canadian with Lower Lakes Towing. Is this a replacement hull or new business?

I wonder if there is any chance that the Grand River side of the business will operate the ship and it will stay as an active American hull.

In conversation with a sailor about Armco a few months ago I wondered about it staying steam, and I was told that she was laid up properly, and the boiler is in good shape, but the turbines would likely need a complete service or overhaul such as replacing blades.
Here's to hoping to see her out steaming in the near future!

Lower Lakes hasn't barged a ship yet. They've done three major repowering jobs and have had a new forebody constructed to be attached to a refurbished stern in their history. But absolutely no barges.

Hopefully the trend continues, perhaps after a few years of seeing her operate as a steamer if a reactivation was judged to be viable. But I suppose the financial allure of a cheaper initial conversion over long-term savings in fuel might be too tempting to dismiss for a company that has endured significant financial issues in recent years.

And they're of course no stranger to operating ATB's, including a former sistership/fleetmate to the Armco/American Valor. Whatever the result might be, too bad something similar hadn't happened to keep the American Victory and Fortitude around.

But at least one of the three potentially has a future on the Lakes, just days after speculation here that she may soon be making that last trip to IMS. Good news for the Armco and hopefully a sign that Lower Lakes may be slowly righting the ship.

What about the possibility of being shortened and re-powered to replace an older hull in there more traditional trades?

Now that LLT has purchased the "Valo" odds it becomes a barge?

The "Valo" or ex-American Valor. Is now Registered to LLT VALO Inc of Port Dover.

So it seems that the old Armco may be seeing a shade of grey in the near future!!

Don't Give up The Ship!!