Boatnerd Discussion Forum

"Guest"]Ive even seen the different shipyards carry parts for certain ships, was at Pascol in tbay and they had props lying about with ships names that were long gone like Scott Misener, Quedoc 2 Nipigon bay etc, really interesting.

There used to be a lot of parts kicking around in the Pascol yard but over time things disappeared. Mostly anything brass or bronze when scrap prices were high. We knew we had 2 of something but could not find them anywhere. It was convenient for us and the customer to have those spare parts to refurbish and have ready for when a boat came in.

Ive even seen the different shipyards carry parts for certain ships, was at Pascol in tbay and they had props lying about with ships names that were long gone like Scott Misener, Quedoc 2 Nipigon bay etc, really interesting.

Guest wrote:Question from EU Guest On the lakes with winter layup when are the winter work dry-docking etc contracts sent out, I would assume Sept -oct ?

That depends on the scope of work. Simple steel work, overhauling valves...basic things that can be done while moored quayside, bids for work may go out anytime, but likely in July-October range.

My company requests bids for special survey/drydocking periods 1+ year in advance. As major capital expenses, budgeting (and cost overruns) must be accounted for.

One thing you can be sure of is that every repair facility/drydock has a list of every ship and their survey expiry dates for many years in the future. They no doubt court the shipowners/managers for their future business, particularly as they have a captive clientele. This is why ships are spread out between yards - not only for berthing space, but more so to "spread the wealth", so to speak. DonJon in Erie has a lot of support in keeping their graving dock active, to help put pressure on Fraser and Fincantieri and keep costs in line (for US-based operators).

Question from EU Guest On the lakes with winter layup when are the winter work dry-docking etc contracts sent out, I would assume Sept -oct ?

Bob wrote:If they repower the ama why would they tow it to sturgeon bay or Erie? The ship runs so why wouldn't they just sail it to either one of those shipyards? Is it cheaper to tow it than to call in a crew to say haul a load of ore down the lakes and then go to the shipyard. Sorry for so many questions just curious. Tia

Her drydocking survey (5 year survey) expired in March 2016. So she cannot legally operate under her own power until new surveys are completed.

What you suggested would have worked if they had arranged for any work to be done before the surveys started expiring, but even then sometimes its cheaper to tow than to bring a ship that has been laid up "back to life" just for a one-time trip.

If they repower the ama why would they tow it to sturgeon bay or Erie? The ship runs so why wouldn't they just sail it to either one of those shipyards? Is it cheaper to tow it than to call in a crew to say haul a load of ore down the lakes and then go to the shipyard. Sorry for so many questions just curious. Tia

Major services - special surveys (drydockings), re-powerings, modifications, etc. are all planned out well in advance. Class approval is required before any components are ordered, and scope of work outlines are composed by naval architecture and/or marine engineering firms. This scope of work could be relatively brief, or it could be very in-depth. I have prepared SOWs for major structural renewal of tanker hulls in a package less than 25 pages. I've prepared SOWs for addition of shelving in a store room on a ship which exceeded 100 pages. It is all about how detailed the owner prefers to be. Sometimes it can be a generic outline, other times it can be so detailed as to specify the grade, length, and torque spec of individual nuts and bolts.

Once a complete scope of work package is assembled, requests for bids will be sent to any capable facility. It is up to those facilities whether they wish to reply or not. The shipping company, if publicly controlled, is also obligated to work with the most effective solution, notably the most cost effective, but logistics and other factors can influence projects as well.

Many factors can combine to a decision in using a certain facility. If Bay Shipbuilding offers a better package overall, it may offset the towing costs to move the vessel there from the Upper Lakes. Sometimes it is simply a matter of the shipping company having more confidence in working with a certain vendor. No doubt Fraser could perform a re-powering job, as recent history exhibits. Perhaps they did not bid, or the litigation concerning asbestos is still a factor. If I recall, Fraser outsourced some of the major steps in the job on the Jackson. 3rd Party vendors working as sub-contractors with the shipyard are quite common, but not without their own headaches. Not likely in this case, but I have seen an outside worker performing maintenance (removing a main engine turbocharger), but he was not allowed to operate the chain blocks...a shipyard rigger had to pull the chains. Of course, they weren't standing by, ready to assist (they were upset at the outsourcing of their jobs). Not very cost effective for anyone. Again, likely not a possibility as Fraser is a union shop, and outside vendors work with them regularly, but it's an example of "lessons learned" that other companies pay attention.

If only drydocking is required, the company may have secured attractive rates by committing to sending X number of vessels to the specified yard.

Many factors are at play in seemingly no-brainer decisions. I can assure you that any shipping company does not base their outlook on slighting a workforce out of spite.

Although not a direct comparison, a relevant story is that I import steel from Korea to the USA regularly. Used in ship repairs, the finished steel is brought in from overseas vendors due to lack of manufacturers in the USA. Many people outside the business tell me "Can't we get someone to make it here?" or "Why does it have to be this certain grade of steel?" Suffice to say, metric sizing is not readily available in the USA, and tooling to make this domestically would be prohibitively expensive. Why can't we use an "equivalent" grade which is produced domestically? Because ABS will not permit this (in many cases, depending on use of course). Alloys of steels are approved for shipbuilding, and they must be matched to compatible materials for their metallurgy to be effective. So, while the layman thinks John's Steel Supply, with their warehouse just outside a shipyard, would be the best vendor, sometimes it is not so simple.

Why would they put out for bid a job that they haven't even decided they're going to need to have performed?

Doesn't sound right to me. That step will happen when/if they decide to bring her back out.

Guest wrote:

Guest wrote:There are no plans to repower the Anderson or the Callaway and Clarke. If the Anderson is needed this season, she will need to be drydocked for five year inspection and steel renewal. Right now which shipyard would do this work is uncertain, but it will not be Fraser Shipyard. Sounds like the yard in Toledo or Bay Shipbuilding.

Why wouldn't it be Fraser ?

It's just the way the bidding for the job went.

Guest wrote:There are no plans to repower the Anderson or the Callaway and Clarke. If the Anderson is needed this season, she will need to be drydocked for five year inspection and steel renewal. Right now which shipyard would do this work is uncertain, but it will not be Fraser Shipyard. Sounds like the yard in Toledo or Bay Shipbuilding.

Why wouldn't it be Fraser ?

The last Guest to post seems rather solidly sure that the work would not be done at Fraser Ship Yard. Would you care to enlighten us as to how or why you are so sure?

There are no plans to repower the Anderson or the Callaway and Clarke. If the Anderson is needed this season, she will need to be drydocked for five year inspection and steel renewal. Right now which shipyard would do this work is uncertain, but it will not be Fraser Shipyard. Sounds like the yard in Toledo or Bay Shipbuilding.

Bob wrote:First off there not scrapping the AMA anytime soon, the ship is in great shape and if they are repowering the ship why would they tow it to sturgeon bay when you have Fraser shipyards right here in superior that are more than capable of doing the repowering the ship.

It's all about who does the re-powering at the best price.

First off there not scrapping the AMA anytime soon, the ship is in great shape and if they are repowering the ship why would they tow it to sturgeon bay when you have Fraser shipyards right here in superior that are more than capable of doing the repowering the ship.

She is NOT heading for scrap or will she for the foreseeable future, this comes from the office. If she's towed out of the twin ports for any reason it's to go to Sturgeon Bay for her 5yr and work to be done.

Even if she never sails again her owners don't need an influx of cash so she would probably just sit at the dock for yrs

I agree with you and your comments Andrew 100% and even more as I will believe she's headed for the boneyard when I see photos of her being towed by tugs and a tow line attached to her bow as well. Until then, I agree that she should be safe for a while for now at least. If demand was to ever warrant her to fit out and sail once more, I would think GLF would want to keep her around so that they may need a spare boat just in case demand picks up for that reason. This is just my thoughts and theory only on this subject.

Andrew wrote:If she's being towed down the lake it's boneyard. That thing isn't going anywhere though. Many reliable sources have pointed to her going over to Fraser sometime this season for work. Even if not, US fleets are smarter than to scrap a vessel they may need again someday. Anderson might not have the best hull of the 3, but if she sits for 10 years, she will, and then they'll need her again. I wouldn't put much stock in rumors. There really is not anything to worry about.

The news item was from an industry source. "Down the Lake" would mean Sturgeon Bay.

If she's being towed down the lake it's boneyard. That thing isn't going anywhere though. Many reliable sources have pointed to her going over to Fraser sometime this season for work. Even if not, US fleets are smarter than to scrap a vessel they may need again someday. Anderson might not have the best hull of the 3, but if she sits for 10 years, she will, and then they'll need her again. I wouldn't put much stock in rumors. There really is not anything to worry about.

Chris M wrote:Untrue, she may be towed down the lake but not for repowering

Meaning what ?