Boatnerd Discussion Forum

twinswinmh wrote:Thanks hausen! I appreciate the information. Just like lightoller, I follow what information there is available, but its sadly slim. I had no idea grain was loaded primarily during normal business hours unlike iron ore pellets, which I knew was 24/7, and coal, which I assumed was.

you're welcome, glad to help spread some knowledge

twinswinmh wrote:I'm not sure if you were questioning that I say it takes a week or so, or just commenting that it is a long load time. I am only going off of how it seems. It is hard to keep track of based on the daily report from Duluth Shipping News.

A little bit of both. You're right, it is hard to keep track of all the movements - especially when some of the in-harbor shifting that goes on isn't mentioned on the schedule, or if it is the mentions don't always stand out. Very few ships this season have actually taken much longer than normal to load. What may extend a vessel's stay at an elevator berth are things like arriving on a weekend but not loading until Monday, rain delays, etc; that might mean a ship was at the berth for three or four days although the actual work of loading only occurred on one or two of those days. There have been times when a vessel got bumped out of a berth to allow another one in to finish. Happened to the Celine and the Flinterrebecca at CHS. I'm fairly certain that none of the Beluga ships that have visited lately have had abnormally long loads.

There were three or four ships that did take really long loads back in July and August; Federal Power, Medemborg, Diezeborg, and possibly Merweborg. Pretty sure that had to do with a new kind of cargo they were loading - this year CHS is starting to handle 'dry distillers grain with solubles' (DDGS), which is a byproduct of ethanol production and is used as a livestock feed. It appears so far that when this cargo is handled CHS only uses one of the spouts at the loading berth, even though CHS1 and CHS2 have five spouts each. Not sure why that is, but it's possible that DDGS is somehow very difficult to handle in conveyor belts and on spouts (sticky?), so the loading just goes slow no matter what. Perhaps DDGS doesn't flow out of a storage bin/silo very well so they load ships directly from railcars rather than from the silos, which would be quite the slow process. Either way each of the ships loading DDGS have taken something like 5+ actual loading days, so a few were at the dock for over a week if any part of their stay corresponded with a weekend.

Sinbad wrote:Do these vessels have holding tanks for the waste water and sewage that is generated aboard each one? I would imagine that this is a requirement but still wonder about it.

Yes they do.

Do these vessels have holding tanks for the waste water and sewage that is generated aboard each one? I would imagine that this is a requirement but still wonder about it.

Just to answer some items mentioned by twinswinmh regarding grain loading paperwork: Typically, salties arriving for grain must be inspected from someone from a shipping bureau for cleanliness and dryness of the holds. This is required for insuring the cargo. A local vessel agent will visit to meet with the captain regarding a loading plan (how many tons go where and in what order, etc.). If this port is the ship's first stop in the U.S., the Coast Guard visits to ensure the ship is operating safely and with proper sanitary procedures. Also, a Customs agent must sometimes visit to clear the crew members to enter port. Often this is done in one visit while the vessel is at anchor. It's a busy couple of hours for the captain but it doesn't usually cause much delay unless a problem arises (dirty or wet hold, etc.)

Thanks hausen! I appreciate the information. Just like lightoller, I follow what information there is available, but its sadly slim. I had no idea grain was loaded primarily during normal business hours unlike iron ore pellets, which I knew was 24/7, and coal, which I assumed was.

I'm not sure if you were questioning that I say it takes a week or so, or just commenting that it is a long load time. I am only going off of how it seems. It is hard to keep track of based on the daily report from Duluth Shipping News. I remember for sure that Beluga ships have taken upwards of a week to load, but I there was for sure at least a couple times in which they would move aside for other ships to load, and then continue. Perhaps this was due to the tariffs and requirements when there is a backlog, that you said.

Interesting information though; thanks again!

Thanks for all the info, much appreciated. I had a feeling it might have been some of these reasons but didn't want to guess as to the reasons and the Duluth Shipping News just gives a brief.

twinswinmh, - The time frame surrounding grain loading is a little different than other cargoes like coal or iron ore pellets, which are loaded 24/7 by Twin Ports docks. Grain loading is structured around the designated schedule of the grain trimmers (?), the people who do the work of loading a ship. Their regular loading hours are during the daytime (approx. 8am to 4 or 5pm) on weekdays. Loading a vessel outside of those boundaries (late at night, very early in the morning, on a weekend, on a major Holiday) means that the workers will be paid overtime. After-hours loading is fairly common around the Twin Ports and seems to be happening more often during the last 5-10 years. If the cargo is time sensitive or a vessel needs to get to its next destination in a hurry, a shipper will likely be willing to pay extra for speed. I believe that some terminals' tariffs (loading rules and fee schedules) state that if there is a heavy backlog of ships waiting to load, the grain terminal can force the shipper to either payout for overtime loading or force the vessel to vacate the dock so others can get in and load first.

The loading time of a week for the kinds of grain ships which visit the Twin Ports is unusually long. Loading berths with fast gallery/elevator conveyors and multiple loading spouts (CHS, Peavey, General Mills S) can usually put 10,000 - 13,000 tons of grain aboard a ship in a regular 8-9 hour work day with ideal conditions. That means that smaller oceangoing ships like most Wagenborg, BBC, Beluga, and Intersee vessels can load at one of these facilities in a day. Larger ocean ships from fleets like Fednav, Canfornav, and Polsteam load in 1.5 - 2 days. Canadian lakers load in about 2 days. Loading berths with single, fixed spouts (like General Mills A or AGP/Cap6 before it got out of the shiploading business) take a little longer - add about one full work day's worth of loading to the above times and that's about right. The loading berth attached to the B1 section of the ex-Cargill terminal in Duluth has fast gallery conveyors and two mobile loading spouts, which cut down on load time especially with longer ships because they don't have to shift along the dock to allow spouts access to different holds. Back when it was an active grain loading berth, Cargill B1 often managed to load a large saltie in one regular work day and Seawaymax Canadian lakers in a day-and-a-half or less.



lightoller, The current backlog at the Twin Ports exists because there is a steady stream of vessels arriving to load grain, and only two local terminals (with three available loading berths between them) are really loading ships right now.

That backlog will likely be enhanced by the rainy weather Duluth-Superior had today - grain can't be loaded in the rain or it will spoil - combined with the fact that three more vessels are scheduled to arrive for grain either tonight or tomorrow.

There are other reasons behind long time periods spent at anchor. When grain exports are strong some vessels arrive in port intending to take out a load but before their owners have actually found a specific cargo for them. Sometimes a vessel arrives at a loading port before its designated cargo has come in by train/truck, or before it's inspected and ready to come out of the elevator. Occasionally a vessel has to wait out the last few days of a fixed-length short-term charter that's about to expire before it can continue with its next bit of business.

It seems to just take a very long time to load up. Not sure if it is the design of the salties or what, but they are taking about a week each, it seems. I believe there are extra hoops to jump through because of the international trading. contacting different people for different permits and such. They just seem to wait, one after another, for the same berth.

They are waiting for a berth to open up.

With the increase of Salties coming in to Duluth in the past month or so, many of them have been anchored off the breakwaters for sometimes up to a week or more. Anyone know the reason why they are held up for so long?

Thanks