Boatnerd Discussion Forum

No, the Mackinaw did no lose a blade, but the Gott lost a rudder.

Didn't the Mackinaw lose a propeller blade that year escorting the Gott and two other GLF boats across Lake Superior in February?

CGCapt wrote:When the Mackinaw was drydocked in Mar 79 it was because it had big shaft seal problems. It was not in for routine maintenance. The shaft alley was leaking so badly it looked like a car wash!

Thanks for the follow up, the report in the Lake Log Chips was vague as to why the Mackinaw was dry docked.

When the Mackinaw was drydocked in Mar 79 it was because it had big shaft seal problems. It was not in for routine maintenance. The shaft alley was leaking so badly it looked like a car wash!

Jay S wrote:Guest, Apples and oranges. Night nav on rivers you have radar, GPS, ATON, etc. Icebreaking is by feel, you have to see pressure ridges, ice thickess and in general "read the ice" no type of lights can give you as much range of sight that you need. Radar is of ne help in reading the ice. As far a 15 people on the bridge you have been looking at pictures of pubic tour cruises.. I have always broken ice with an Officer of the Deck (OOD), helmsman and lookout. You seem to have some bigger issues with the USCG.

We have seen a software upgrade for newer radars to adjust their settings somewhat to attempt to single out the ice on the radar return. Even still, something like that is by feel.

and lol @ 15 people on the bridge! When we deployed with a CG Cutter, we found that their quarterdeck watch in port was just one guy, and freaking cameras!! Meanwhile, there were 4 of us on the frigate standing quarterdeck at one time...what chapped my | about the CG was it seemed better :( I honestly don't think I counted more than a dozen people at a single time on the boat, let alone stuff them in that tiny bridge

Even the old Mackinaw (WAGB-83) spent time under maintenance and repair during the winter season. Lake Log Chips Vol. 7 No. 37 dated March 17, 1979 reported the Mackinaw as having assisted 43 vessels during January of that year before arriving at Bay Shipbuilding on March 2 for dry docking. If I am not mistaken the winter of 1979 was one of the harshest on record for the Great Lakes region.

My AIS monitoring shows the Mackinaw alive and well breaking ice heading to Renards as of 2am. What a life. Breaking ice and cutting cheese!

When people post like "the Coast Guard is a joke", they are not referring to the dedicated men and woman who work very diligently each and everyday. What is meant is the equipment they use to break ice is inadequate. Breaking ice is a stressful job, very had to get any sleep as the ice screeches on the hull, that is a major reason to shutdown at night. I remember the 60's and 70's and trying to sleep after the 8 to 12 watch, forget that. Hats off to anyone that will experience ice breaking this year.

edm wrote:Looks like the mackinaw is MIA. Is the crew still aboard ? Anyone seen signs of work being done on her ?

Every year the USCG ice breakers get 3-5 weeks of maintenance time while the locks are closed. The old Mac used to take the same down time when necessary. All the required crew remain aboard. I go by the new Macs dock frequently and there are some signs of work but most of it is internal. I ran into one of the galley crew a while back at Walmart in Cheboygan and she was buying some extra food items, mostly breakfast stuff. They are currently set to resume ice breaking on March 9.
Just like the crews on the lakers, they deserve some down time and family time too. Once they head out on the 9th, it could possibly be quite a while before they are back in Cheboygan.
This all would have been a non issue if GLF hadn't made a serious blunder with the AMA trying to stretch one more trip in Arctic conditions.

edm wrote:Just read on the news page that the Mackinaw was in port for scheduled work. What is the CG thinking ? It's winter - we need the ice breakers in winter- not summer time !

The article says

Each of the USCG cutters are scheduled for maintenance during the Closed Navigation Season (15 Jan-10 Mar),” said Mark S. Gill, Director, VTS St. Marys River on Wednesday.

CLOSED NAVIGATION SEASON. I guess that means that there aren't supposed to be ships running then. So ships running then get whatever help is available.

Next question...should there be a closed navigation season? Based on 2014 and 2015, yes. Based on other years, no.

Steve

edm wrote:Just read on the news page that the Mackinaw was in port for scheduled work. What is the CG thinking ? It's winter - we need the ice breakers in winter- not summer time !

In todays News: "Each of the USCG cutters are scheduled for maintenance during the Closed Navigation Season (15 Jan-10 Mar),” said Mark S. Gill, Director, VTS St. Marys River on Wednesday. Each cutter by class (WTGB, WLB, WLBB) is allotted 3-5 weeks of maintenance during the nine-week lock closure period to reset machinery, conduct training, and correct discrepancies.”

This suggests the CG does not expect to provide extensive ice breaking services during the off season. It seems they're not expecting much traffic so having one of their ships in for maintenance during that period is not looked upon as a negative impact on cargo shipping. This information would not be news to the shipping companies. We're not hearing any reports that they're unhappy with the current level of service. This suggests they know they're pushing the conditions by trying to operate well beyond the normal end of the season.

Just read on the news page that the Mackinaw was in port for scheduled work. What is the CG thinking ? It's winter - we need the ice breakers in winter- not summer time !

Looks like the mackinaw is MIA. Is the crew still aboard ? Anyone seen signs of work being done on her ?

You also have issue with how experienced the crew is. On the freighter you have a crew that runs the same courses for their career. The CG boats you have a good portion of new people rotating through, with the challenges of breaking ice it is not a time to wing it.

Rustyrivet wrote:
I'm not sure you understand what living on an ice breaker entails...

Does anyone have the slightest idea what's wrong with the Mackinaw ? It's quite obvious they have suffered a major problem.

Guest wrote:Most of the sailors on the commercial fleet believe the modern USCG and especially the Mackinaw are a joke. With crews 3 times the size of ours running comparatively simple boats only around 200 feet long they can't even operate when it gets dark out. When we get stuck we all hope that the Canadians will come instead! The Bay Class Tugs are okay, but not the same as having a true heavy icebreaker. Mackinaw is incapable of breaking a wide enough track for even the smallest freighters; and the Alder and Hollyhock aren't much use beyond setting bouys. No one in the commerical fleet can comprehend their unwillingness to operate at night. On an 800 foot tug-barge with 10,000 HP we will transit the rivers at night with only 1 man in the wheelhouse (a mate) and 4 people awake on the whole boat! The USCG can't do it with 15 people in the wheelhouse alone! Building another bouy tender like the Mackinaw would be useless; and even if they built a proper icebreaker they wouldn't know how to use it.

I'm not sure you understand what living on an ice breaker entails. No one off watch gets even a remote sense of good sleep. The noise of the ice, the vibration and constant engine manouvers keeps everyone from getting a decent rest. They simply cannot function 24 hrs/day. While you on the 800' tug/barge are probably 700' away from the mayhem?
As for running with only one person on watch in the wheelhouse, surely you don't condone this? The lives of the crew, the ship and environment surely demand another set of eyes up there. Because it may be legal, doesn't make it morally right.

I was skipper for Soo River Company & P&H Shipping Company and these ship were 60 foot beam except for the Mapleglen & Oakglen that had 75 ft beam. I got stuck in the ice with the Beechglen in Whitefish Bay. I had to call the old Mackinaw that had a beam of 74 ft. She was a good ice breaker She broke ice all the way across the bay until open water. In 1980 I had the Oakglen "1" got stuck in the St. Clair River and the USGC Neah Bay tried to break me out but with only a 37 ft beam she worked her heart out but could not do the job.
How do you try to follow a path that is only 37 ft wide when my ship is 60 ft wide and with a wind that keeps blowing the track closed behind the cutter. The new Mac. is only 58 ft beam. the CCGS Samuel Rislay has a beam of 44ft.

Guest wrote:Most of the sailors on the commercial fleet believe the modern USCG and especially the Mackinaw are a joke. With crews 3 times the size of ours running comparatively simple boats only around 200 feet long they can't even operate when it gets dark out. When we get stuck we all hope that the Canadians will come instead! The Bay Class Tugs are okay, but not the same as having a true heavy icebreaker. Mackinaw is incapable of breaking a wide enough track for even the smallest freighters; and the Alder and Hollyhock aren't much use beyond setting bouys. No one in the commerical fleet can comprehend their unwillingness to operate at night. On an 800 foot tug-barge with 10,000 HP we will transit the rivers at night with only 1 man in the wheelhouse (a mate) and 4 people awake on the whole boat! The USCG can't do it with 15 people in the wheelhouse alone! Building another bouy tender like the Mackinaw would be useless; and even if they built a proper icebreaker they wouldn't know how to use it.

Coming from a military family and from one that has served himself I can tell you that budget cuts have had a disastrous effect upon the capabilities of all our military services. All military personnel are governed by regulations and if the coast guard has rules of not operating at night then there is no blame to be imparted upon the men and women operating these icebreakers. Likewise, these same individuals have to operate the equipment available to them. If there are any shortcomings in icebreaking capability on the Great Lakes than this is a result of our political leadership and that is where the responsibility lies. I'm all for cutting waste in the government (including the military), but I feel that we have fallen off a precipice in our willingness to fund questionable social programs at the cost of our defense capabilities (which if I not wrong includes keeping the waterways of this nation open to commerce). That being said, I do not believe there is a requirement for year-round navigation on the lakes during peacetime as viable and proven alternatives exist. From reading this board, I have not yet seen a plausible reason as to why the Mackinaw is idled at this time of year. Is this a result of budget issues within the Coast Guard? Or, perhaps, is this a reflection of the vessel being optimized for multiple uses that also require it to be operational between spring and fall rather than just the winter ice season?

The Mobile Bay is continuing to steam towards the AMA in the Straits. Current time is 23:37 Central (Sun night). Judging from her speed, she is breaking ice.