Boatnerd Discussion Forum

I thought that the Valor former American Valor was years ago re-flagged and registered Canadian? Although the name American Valor is still painted on its hull along with the ASC hull colors and stack, at least I thought that was what I once heard and read. Unless I’m missing something here at it seems I always am. I don’t read or follow the news and Port Reports as daily and often as I used to thus, I miss a lot of the news now and the Port Reports on here!

Mn Bob I don't think rand can afford to repower the valor. I'd say their having a hard time keeping their head out of the water better hope they don't have another serious problem this season.

Guest wrote: June 17, 2024, 10:15 am Are there any steam engineers available to run the Valor if she was to be returned to service?

If they keep her American Flag and with an AMO contract you could find some. I worked her sister, the SS Reserve, back in 2006. I love rotary cup burners!! :)

And the Mariner and White have been carrying grain from Thunder Bay!

If they were going to bring the valor out they would probably repower her.

I'm not really sure there would be much need to reflag a vessel. Most of the Michipicoten's runs are between the Minnesota North Shore ore docks and Algoma's mill in Sault Ste. Marie. Since that is between a US and Canadian port, a vessel from either side could handle it. Michipicoten has also been picking up some stone cargos on Lake Huron but I would say at least half of those runs this season have also crossed the border and could be handled by a vessel of either flag. Anything that is between Canadian ports can probably be handled by the Manitoulin and Saginaw.

Question I had regarding Hull insurance - since this was not an accident, does the Insurance company pay? They don't pay if a bulkhead rusts away or if steel needs to be replaced due to erosion.

Is it like homeowners insurance that only pays for certain events not something like a sewer line failing?

Are there any steam engineers available to run the Valor if she was to be returned to service?

Has the Michipicoten's ore load been offloaded to another ship and are there any photos?

When will she leave for drydocking or will they just scrap her?

While this incident involved a Canadian flagged vessel, it would seem possible that it could have major implications for the aging US fleet with many of its vessels dating from the same time period as the Michipicoten. Although this particular vessel spent many years idle and with limited use during the 1980s and 1990s while part of the Interlake Steamship fleet it has been heavily involved in the movement of iron ore along a relatively short trade route on Lake Superior for many years with many additional cargoes it would have carried over a longer trade route over the same period of time. Whether or not the number of seasonal loading and unloadings has any bearing on this structural failure is unknown to the public (or possibly even the investigators involved) at this point. It would seem that unless there was some type of problem such as a error with the loading plan when the ship took on its cargo that placed some type of stress on the fracture point then this is likely a sign of some type of fatigue problem. A significant point here is that the fracture occurred in good weather and not in heavy seas, an outcome reliant entirely on chance.

Depending upon its findings, It is possible the resulting investigation will put ships of this age under increased scrutiny on both sides of the lakes. In such a situation several ships in the US fleet would likely be included in any increased inspection requirements to remain active. Unfortunately, the increasingly elderly nature of the US fleet puts the future of continued operation by a large number of US flagged powered vessels into serious doubt as the fleet is nearing the point at which only a major series of fleet wide modernization programs will maintain an efficient pool of vessel capacity. Whether or not there will be sufficient demand in the coming decades to justify such an investment seems to be an open question.

As for the Michipicoten, isn't it one of, if not the oldest active powered freighter in the Canadian lake fleet with the Cuyahoga currently sidelined? In addition, how much longer is Algoma going to be receiving iron ore shipments with the approaching start up of its electric arc furnace?

While I'm reluctant to draw any parallels, this incident, at least to myself, gives some validity to the possibility of the Fitzgerald suffering a similar structural failure on its final voyage in 1975 that would not have involved any striking of a shoal near Caribou Island.

William Lafferty wrote: June 16, 2024, 2:23 pm Under 46 U.S.C.§ 56101 and 46 U.S.C.§ 56103 application must be made to the United States Maritime Commission for permission to transfer an American vessel over 1000 gross tons to a foreign flag. MARAD is much more interested in bringing foreign flag vessels into American registry and far less sanguine about letting American vessels enter foreign registries. For American-built vessels, it may actually be easier to bring them back into American registry than removing them from American registry.

I wouldn't want to say that you're wrong but since the early 1990's can you name ONE American built ship that has been brought back from any foreign registry much less Canada? I'll wait for your reply.

Why is reflaging necessary? US flagged boats deliver to the Soo including the American Mariner currently upbound with coal from Sandusky. The American Spirit , VTB and other US vessels have also delivered pellets there.

Under 46 U.S.C.§ 56101 and 46 U.S.C.§ 56103 application must be made to the United States Maritime Commission for permission to transfer an American vessel over 1000 gross tons to a foreign flag. MARAD is much more interested in bringing foreign flag vessels into American registry and far less sanguine about letting American vessels enter foreign registries. For American-built vessels, it may actually be easier to bring them back into American registry than removing them from American registry.

Once a vessel is reflagged Canadian it is very difficult to bring it back to the American side.

Denny wrote: June 14, 2024, 11:59 pm Another theory, idea and suggestion I have on this subject. A reminder to all, this is only my opinion and suggestion only! I hope I don’t get flagged for my comments and opinions. Rand has 5 vessels that are leased I think from ASC correct? Could it be possible to have one be re-flagged Canadian to fill in or takeover the Michoicoten’s runs while a decision is made on her future? How about this, take either the Sam Laud or American Courage then re-flag them Canadian if it could be done. Both ships are river-class ships built in the 1970s and each are about 635 X 68. Each of those two would be small enough yet both could get the job done IMO at least anyway as far as possibly replacing the Michoicoten then taking over their runs. Both the Sam Laud and American Courage are not that old as in the case of the Michpicoten. Don’t know the whole details and basics but, in my opinion anyway this would be the sensible thing for Rand to do IF it can be done? Also, it would save Rand from having to spend money re-powering the Valor or building a new Chinese laker both of which would require a whole lot of time and money. This again is my opinions only here. Thank You.

Sure! Let's take away more American boats!! Thanks a lot...NOT!!

Another theory, idea and suggestion I have on this subject. A reminder to all, this is only my opinion and suggestion only! I hope I don’t get flagged for my comments and opinions. Rand has 5 vessels that are leased I think from ASC correct? Could it be possible to have one be re-flagged Canadian to fill in or takeover the Michoicoten’s runs while a decision is made on her future? How about this, take either the Sam Laud or American Courage then re-flag them Canadian if it could be done. Both ships are river-class ships built in the 1970s and each are about 635 X 68. Each of those two would be small enough yet both could get the job done IMO at least anyway as far as possibly replacing the Michoicoten then taking over their runs. Both the Sam Laud and American Courage are not that old as in the case of the Michpicoten. Don’t know the whole details and basics but, in my opinion anyway this would be the sensible thing for Rand to do IF it can be done? Also, it would save Rand from having to spend money re-powering the Valor or building a new Chinese laker both of which would require a whole lot of time and money. This again is my opinions only here. Thank You.

Correction ais says were comin michi

The Manitoulin is on her to off load the mich. I like the Manitoulin ais destination we're on our way mich

Looks like the Saginaw might picking up the slack of the michipicoton. They are headed for the soo with a load of ore now.

I am fairly sure this is why they hang on to old boats. If they have one sink or burn they can pull a boat like the valor out, repower her, and have additional capacity quicker than a complete new build. I know it isn’t that simple, and it will be expensive but it gives the owners options.

As for the sherwin. They own the dock that it sits at so it doesn’t cost much to own. I can’t see it leaving Detour destined for anywhere but a scrap yard, but interlake must still see value in her